Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Rossville Indiana
Posts: 66

quote:

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Originally posted by Preston Chadwell
To clear my question up, I'm wondering who is looking for the type of dog like I have? One that is your buddy during the day, and trees coons night in and night out no matter where you drop it or the conditions when you drop it. Not the high powered competition type that blows through the country and grabs a tree (right or wrong) when it smells a hot coon and knocks the limbs off 120 bpm. Who's breeding for the good ol country coondog that puts the hides on the barn everytime you cut him loose, but may never have a title put on it?

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Baileyton, TN
Posts: 312

I never said his mouth was below average. I said it wasn't overpowering like many people look for in today's dogs. That's the only thing I'd change about him. I wish he had that overpowering mouth everybody wants on a dog. The comment about a me too dog coming from a half mile away was an exaggeration and I didnt mean it to sound like he was having his tracks taken away. That's not the case. I'm saying when a dog backpacks with him he'll check the tree to make sure the coon is there and a lot of the time the back packer slams treed while he is checking. Some times the back packer falls short and my dog takes it on, some times the coon is in the tree being checked. I never like to tree him on his first locate before he settles in just in case he does move it on. Staying away from minus points is a big part of winning, right?

I want my hounds to have balance and I feel like many other people seek a balanced hound. Could we get that balance from breeding to these types of hounds? Would it be better to try and breed a super track dog to a super tree dog to get a happy medium? I don't think you can mix black and white to get gray when it comes to hounds. Can we continue to improve on our dogs or is there a peak that we'll eventually reach at some point?

I don't expect the majority of coonhunters to enjoy the type of hound I like. We're all different and we all have different needs in a hound based on climate, geography, and coon population. I just wanted to see how many people are in my way of thinking and enjoy the type of hound I do. Feel free to call or anything if you're curious as to what direction I'm trying to go with my hounds or if you have any insight or knowledge that may help me. I love talking to like minded people who enjoy a good hound race that ends with the meat in the tree.

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Preston Chadwell
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Last edited by Preston Chadwell on 02-14-2015 at 05:21 AM

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If you have a female that is the type you like, you can pick out a male to breed her to that you like. You have your choice.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
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I like everything you describe about your dog and I might consider breeding to a dog like that, but there is one thing that might make me look elsewhere. Unless he had some other trait I liked/needed more and that is the part about the "less than overpowering mouth" that you said "can make him hard to call" around other dogs.
One of the problems with trying to own/campaign a walker stud is the fact that there are just too many of them out there that truly have it all. Or, like yours, very extremely close to it. This means that the guy with the female don't have to settle unless he chooses. There are probably a lot of "stud" owners that wished they never wasted that money on those full page color ads, the phone never rang.
Reading this thread brings up some interesting points...I don't know if I agree with all of them or not. I lived and hunted in the days of the 3 hour hunts and on a three hour hunt you had an extra hour for a good dog that is doing his job to rake up more points. Tree, track or balanced, it don't matter...if he's doing what he is supposed to.
I don't believe that slick treeing is necessarily a genetic thing. From what I have seen it can be a training problem, or better...the lack of it. What I see with at least half of the slick treeing dogs is that they are not running a coon in the first place.
I also don't see that on average we are that far off track in the current breeding program that's going on right now...anytime you strive for something and have to do things a little different to get it there will be setbacks or bumps. They will just have to be ironed out. In the 70's and 80's we bred for hard, tight tree dogs and we got some tree fighters. It appears now and ever since that we are breeding for independence. I can't say I totally like it, cut loose four dogs and they go off like a grenade in the woods, but if it wins hunts and trees more coon...

What guys are calling "competition types" might be what a lot of folks are putting in the hunts, but they aren't what's winning them.

Last edited by msinc on 02-14-2015 at 03:14 PM

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
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i agree with msinc on the slick trees for the most part it is a lack of correct training. easier to take some tree out of them but down right frustrating if the tree isn't breed into them. no stud out there doesn't have some faults. haveing a tree dog isn't a fault!!!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
i agree with msinc on the slick trees for the most part it is a lack of correct training. easier to take some tree out of them but down right frustrating if the tree isn't breed into them. no stud out there doesn't have some faults. haveing a tree dog isn't a fault!!!!

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

There are a number of hounds out there that are regular coon treeing dogs, but have a hole or a weakness that prevents them from being an ideal candidate for the hunts. That does not mean they can't provide years of enjoyment for someone, it's more about being honest with yourself about what is on the end of your strap.

I sure don't have all the answers, and I don't get out too much, but am of the following opinion. If you don't have a quick, one bark, ACCURATE tree dog that can be easily heard, you will have a long row to hoe trying to finish a dog in the hunts. Yes they are out there, but not as common or near the numbers of them as professed to be.

Preston, you have made it clear to me you understand that your hound has some traits that are not advantageous to excelling in the hunts. That being said, I think that answers why anyone looking for a hound to be competitive in the hunts would not breed to a hound like yours. If you do enjoy the hunts and have a desire to compete, seek out the loudest, most accurate, quick one bark tree dog female you can find, and obtain a pup out of her and a male dog which possesses those same traits.

You obviously like your current hound very much, enjoy the heck out of him for as long as you can! On the flip side, be honest with yourself. Acknowledge that it will take extra time and money to finish a hound that is not ideally suited for the hunts, nor will a lot of folks want to breed to such a hound or want offspring from such a hound.

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Last edited by Vic Stoll on 02-14-2015 at 03:34 PM

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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Rossville Indiana
Posts: 66

quote:

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Originally posted by Vic Stoll
There are a number of hounds out there that are regular coon treeing dogs, but have a hole or a weakness that prevents them from being an ideal candidate for the hunts. That does not mean they can't provide years of enjoyment for someone, it's more about being honest with yourself about what is on the end of your strap.

I sure don't have all the answers, and I don't get out too much, but am of the following opinion. If you don't have a quick, one bark, ACCURATE tree dog that can be easily heard, you will have a long row to hoe trying to finish a dog in the hunts. Yes they are out there, but not as common or near the numbers of them as professed to be.

Preston, you have made it clear to me you understand that your hound has some traits that are not advantageous to excelling in the hunts. That being said, I think that answers why anyone looking for a hound to be competitive in the hunts would not breed to a hound like yours. If you do enjoy the hunts and have a desire to compete, seek out the loudest, most accurate, quick one bark tree dog female you can find, and obtain a pup out of her and a male dog which possesses those same traits.

You obviously like your current hound very much, enjoy the heck out of him for as long as you can! On the flip side, be honest with yourself. Acknowledge that it will take extra time and money to finish a hound that is not ideally suited for the hunts, nor will a lot of folks want to breed to such a hound or want offspring from such a hound.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
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I think Vic Stoll wrapped up this thread.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Baileyton, TN
Posts: 312

I see what yall are saying and I agree 100%. Nobody looking to be competitive in the hunts is going to want all the traits my dog has (i.e: average mouth, checking the tree)
On the other hand, people that enjoy pleasure hunting during the week and hitting an occasional nite hunt every now and then may desire some of these traits. I don't know. I guess what I'm saying is he's a good mixture of the two worlds for me and there may be more people out there that look for the same. He's competitive at the local level and against any dog I've hunted him with. I've never hunted him in a big hunt so I have no clue how he'd do, but I know he'd do his part to have a coon.
I love picking yall's brains about what traits are desirable for different people based on how and where they hunt, and what they want to accomplish in the sport.
Keep the responses coming.

Are there any good well known linebred pleasure hounds around?
What do pleasure hunters look to breed to? Traits? dogs proven in competition or untitled dogs?

What do other people like me (pleasure hunter, occasional weekend warrior) look to breed to? Traits? Dogs proven in competition or untitled pleasure hounds?

Is there any difference at all as to what we all want to breed to? Do we all look for the same traits just to use them in a different way?

What lines of hounds of all breeds throw the quick, one bark, accurate tree dogs that can be a pleasure to hunt through the week as well as on the weekend?

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Last edited by Preston Chadwell on 02-14-2015 at 04:19 PM

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Location: Louisiana
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What lines of hounds of all breeds throw the quick, one bark, accurate tree dogs that can be a pleasure to hunt through the week as well as on the weekend? Most of them do. You just have to lucky enough to get one like that.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Baileyton, TN
Posts: 312

I would agree with that. It's kind of like winning the lottery when you find one that has everything you want. Don't get me wrong every dog has certain things about them that we may want to change, but some dogs get pretty close to having it all

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Preston Chadwell
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This is what you have to realize. If, by some miracle, every pup born in the next five years turned out to be a great coonhound, there would still be only one winner at every hunt. It would still be just as hard to own the winner. There are a lot of good dogs out there now, but only one winner per hunt.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Baileyton, TN
Posts: 312

Good point

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Preston Chadwell
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Yep. I agree with all of the above except I think I might have said it wrong or did a bad job explaining about where I stand on the loud mouthed dog thing.
First off, I don't necessarily believe a loud dog is somehow better for competition, he may not be. I personally like a big mouthed loud dog for my own enjoyment. I think it is also a pretty important selling point for a stud dog. Sometimes it is easier in the hunts if you have a dog no one else can easily call, because they sure will tree theirs on your locate if they figure it out. The louder the dog the easier and quicker it is for that type hunter to figure it out and start racking up the points.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Baileyton, TN
Posts: 312

Id say the only way to defend against a hunter like that would be to have a stay put slam treed type dog. One that doesn't check the tree so you can tree him as soon as he locates.

I also enjoy a hound with a big mouth. I normally wouldn't keep a hound that has an average mouth, but in this case I really enjoy pleasure hunting him. He has all of the tools I want except for the mouth. To me the hunts are just an added perk and something I do when I have a dog that really needs to be taken to town, so him being easy to call isn't my biggest concern.

Idw anybody to think this post is all about my hound or that I'm trying to draw attention to him to be bred or anything. I'm just using him as an example to explain my way of thinking and to ask questions.

I'm curious to learn the fundamental differences and ways of thinking between pleasure and comp hunters or if there are really any at all.

I appreciate all of the replies from everybody and I thank you for your opinions

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Preston Chadwell
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how many different locates does your dog have?? my dog has 2 different locates one he is just checking and the other I will put him down as soon as he starts it. so I your dog has one of them but still checks the tree, tree him on it.
as long as he does not bark off the tree when he is checking he will be safe.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Baileyton, TN
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He has a triple chop whenever he locates and when he's gonna stay he'll immediately follow it with a steady series of chops in different sequences sometimes 2s sometimes 3s. When he's just checking it's normally a 2 chop locate and a long pause while he circles the tree. He's strictly bawl on the ground so I know when he chops he's checking or treed solid.

The dog really doesn't have much of a locate because it is pretty much just like his tree bark but it always comes in a set of three. He's definitely not like many dogs with a long bawl locate that sounds like you've stabbed them.

Whenever Ive tried treeing him as soon as i hear him chop it always seems like he leaves and takes it on, but if I wait to make sure he's settled in it seems like I take a few more second and third trees than I'd like. Haha I guess it's just one of those things

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