Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Big Swamp
Posts: 216

The way I read the post and not being there,, I think the dog was treeing lay ups. I have had One good layup dog in my lifetime and he treed coons that others never knew were there,, for I believe those coons were never on the ground, especially this happened 50% of the time the cast First turns loose and is still a little light out and the coon is sitting on a limb outside a den. Other dogs would check the tree and not tree on it. Cold, Sleeting night,, sounds to me a perfect night to tree some lay ups. The barking for 20 yards, 2 times before loading up the tree, Honestly, some would say,, 2 barks inside of 20 yards is babbling, but I never heard of a babbling, silent dog.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

Chewbach- I'm sending you a pm.

__________________
Phone-740-767-2572
Dave Mayles
11210 Davis Road
Glouster, Ohio 45732
Home To:
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Hang'em High Holly
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Rockets Top Gun.
Gr.Nt.Ch.Hooper Ridge Rocket
Gr.Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Dolly
Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Queen
Nt.Ch Raw Dawg Rowdy
PR Tree Banging Buddy
HOOPER RIDGE ENGLISH-POUND FOR POUND THEY ARE ONE TOUGH HOUND!!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 1202

Here is how U solve this problem. Get one that opens off the chain and then gets deep and lonely with 2 lookiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin down and leash lockes you when you got 150 and they got 225+. Then let the other people start threads on internet about babbling and how they cheat. Just saying.lol

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: east/Tennessee
Posts: 479

I have nothing against silent dog I would prefer one over a open mouth dog but I AM TRYING TO SEE IF U ALL WOULD HAVE CALLED DOG ON BEING SILENT THATS IT. not trying to start debate of right wrong anything like that

__________________
......if you have more circle than plus points you ain't got a coon dog

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 1202

quote:

---

Originally posted by blk andtanman86
I have nothing against silent dog I would prefer one over a open mouth dog but I AM TRYING TO SEE IF U ALL WOULD HAVE CALLED DOG ON BEING SILENT THATS IT. not trying to start debate of right wrong anything like that

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

quote:

---

Originally posted by blk andtanman86
I have nothing against silent dog I would prefer one over a open mouth dog but I AM TRYING TO SEE IF U ALL WOULD HAVE CALLED DOG ON BEING SILENT THATS IT. not trying to start debate of right wrong anything like that

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Terre Haute, Indiana
Posts: 28

quote:

---

Originally posted by john Duemmer
I think what gets missed is that alot of real tight mouthed dogs didnt start that way, i have had 2 through the years that started out as open as most and got near silent as they got older and smarter, some may consider it a fault but if a dog is winning on a regular basis with 25 strike points thats one heck of a coondog.

---

__________________
Gordon and Jill Trueblood
Home of Hatchet Creek Redbones
Terre Haute, Indiana. 47803
(812) 917-2411

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

to answer your original question. I would not have scratched the dog for being silent because of the fact that he was only (SILENT) on two out of three tracks. UKC will not give you a definite answer on how to address this issue but this is what I have adopted.

If Im hunting with a dog and it just falls treed the first two drops of the night, I will then put this dog on warning that I think the dog is silent. If the dog falls treed 3 straight times, I will then scratch the dog. If the dog opens on the third track, I will allow the dog to continue hunting until it puts 3 straight trees together without a track bark.

It would be nice of this organization would take a stand and give some hard, concrete language to help address this situation, but for now they are unwilling to do so.

I don't think it would be that difficult to include same/similar language to address these so called tight mouth track dogs, but to date NOTHING has been done.

__________________
Phone-740-767-2572
Dave Mayles
11210 Davis Road
Glouster, Ohio 45732
Home To:
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Hang'em High Holly
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Rockets Top Gun.
Gr.Nt.Ch.Hooper Ridge Rocket
Gr.Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Dolly
Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Queen
Nt.Ch Raw Dawg Rowdy
PR Tree Banging Buddy
HOOPER RIDGE ENGLISH-POUND FOR POUND THEY ARE ONE TOUGH HOUND!!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Somerville Alabama
Posts: 851

The Ghost Strikes/Babblers are unfortunately a worse problem as far as cheating in UKC an PKC than any Silent Mouth hound. A lot more hunts are won by these type hounds which is unfortunate.

__________________
- WHITE OAK ENGLISH COONHOUNDS -
(256)797-2716
dillard568@yahoo.com

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

you got to watch this time of year! you would think a dog is silent when they get treed with out a track bark. well a lot of your coon dogs will check trees and look for a coon and not a track in big timber. I said coon dog! if they have treed a lot of coon in this part of the country.I said coon dog! if I had a dog that look for a track every time I turned it loose in the woods they would not tree near as many coon.they got to have BRAINS in thick coon. sounds like that good old boy had a coondog to me. what we all need. and MY KIND. jmo

__________________
C.JONES

Last edited by CHEWBACH on 01-02-2015 at 05:57 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

If a dog trees one "layup" after another just about every time he is cut loose he is silent, period. I have seen some of the coldest, best nosed dogs alive and they couldn't tree layups every time they were cut loose. I could care less what other hunters want to feed and don't hate or dislike silent dogs, but I will never feed one. They are definitely not for me. Get in a cast with one of them and the rest of the worlds dogs have to all be babblers. How else could the other dogs run a track that "don't exist" because it is a lay up???
There is no question silent dogs will tree more coons. If you just want to kill every coon in the woods why not set 220 conibears in front of a coffee can filled with donuts??? You don't have to feed or shovel up after them and they don't cost much and you don't have to get wet and cold while they are doing their thing. There is zero question that you will kill more coons, they are working 24/7.
UKC's position seems simple enough, if a dog is continuously silent on track he gets scratched. Tree dogs are nice and it's fun to knock out a coon once in a while but I want to hear a race too.
If you really want to kill coons bad enough you could raise them in a pen and hit 'em in the head with a hammer when you feel the urge, but that don't make it a good idea.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
If a dog trees one "layup" after another just about every time he is cut loose he is silent, period. I have seen some of the coldest, best nosed dogs alive and they couldn't tree layups every time they were cut loose. I could care less what other hunters want to feed and don't hate or dislike silent dogs, but I will never feed one. They are definitely not for me. Get in a cast with one of them and the rest of the worlds dogs have to all be babblers. How else could the other dogs run a track that "don't exist" because it is a lay up???
There is no question silent dogs will tree more coons. If you just want to kill every coon in the woods why not set 220 conibears in front of a coffee can filled with donuts??? You don't have to feed or shovel up after them and they don't cost much and you don't have to get wet and cold while they are doing their thing. There is zero question that you will kill more coons, they are working 24/7.
UKC's position seems simple enough, if a dog is continuously silent on track he gets scratched. Tree dogs are nice and it's fun to knock out a coon once in a while but I want to hear a race too.
If you really want to kill coons bad enough you could raise them in a pen and hit 'em in the head with a hammer when you feel the urge, but that don't make it a good idea.

---

__________________
C.JONES

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2011
Location:
Posts: 856

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
If a dog trees one "layup" after another just about every time he is cut loose he is silent, period. I have seen some of the coldest, best nosed dogs alive and they couldn't tree layups every time they were cut loose. I could care less what other hunters want to feed and don't hate or dislike silent dogs, but I will never feed one. They are definitely not for me. Get in a cast with one of them and the rest of the worlds dogs have to all be babblers. How else could the other dogs run a track that "don't exist" because it is a lay up???
There is no question silent dogs will tree more coons. If you just want to kill every coon in the woods why not set 220 conibears in front of a coffee can filled with donuts??? You don't have to feed or shovel up after them and they don't cost much and you don't have to get wet and cold while they are doing their thing. There is zero question that you will kill more coons, they are working 24/7.
UKC's position seems simple enough, if a dog is continuously silent on track he gets scratched. Tree dogs are nice and it's fun to knock out a coon once in a while but I want to hear a race too.
If you really want to kill coons bad enough you could raise them in a pen and hit 'em in the head with a hammer when you feel the urge, but that don't make it a good idea.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 1535

I like 1 that opens as soon as it smells a raccoon, then open just enough so you know where they went,best of both worlds, they don't have to be out there "hollerin' for help"........

__________________
"Some dogs will learn to tree a coon, others were born to!

"Coma Power"
"It's in the blood"
HOME- 219-326-7907
CELL-219-575-0067

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

quote:

---

Originally posted by blk andtanman86
a couple of years ago I was in a cast it was cold and sleeting first drop we spent like 25 minutes with out a bark all of a sudden big walker male blows up treed without saying a word on ground two others get in their....2 drop bout 5 minutes in same thing the handler with dog in 2nd place wants him scratched for being silent we didn't drop 3 big walker male treed right in front of us mad 2 barks on ground in bout 20 yards from tree sat down....handler of dog 2 still wanted him scratched....we did not.. I think this dog was lay up aristed and the only hound in cast that was a coon dog what u think????

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Midway Tn
Posts: 419

I wouldn't call him silent if he opened twice before he treed...I'm with everybody else I think he was treeing lay ups...the main problem I see with trying to get a dog scratched for being silent is most dogs have a night or two here and there where they don't say much. We were on a *kc cast last winter and every dog in the cast went silent. My male actually gives a little too much mouth on the ground for my taste and he is an honest strike dog but is not a babbler by any means. He never said a word all night till he treed. I drew my buddy who was hunting a pup I sold him that I know for a fact ain't silent and he went stone cold on the ground also. I had hunted with the other guy a time or two and know his dog wasn't silent but none of em said a word on the ground that night. We treed 6 coon on an hr hunt and the dogs put on a clinic. I have never seen anything else like that but I appreciate a silent dog now. Most action packed cast I have ever been on

__________________
David Gunter

The Old Dog

Gunters Hardwoods Hank - Walker - Cumberland River Marvin x Peppermint Pepper

Girly Girl - Feist - Super Sport x Gannons Heidi

The Pups

Gunters Sweet Tn Kandy Kane - Redbone - Kodak x Ruby

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

---

Originally posted by garminguru
Well, what you are suggesting is in left field. Even though a race is not present some folks still like to watch a silent dog work and hear it tree.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2009
Location: carrollton,Ohio
Posts: 716

quote:

---

Originally posted by N Williams
Here is how U solve this problem. Get one that opens off the chain and then gets deep and lonely with 2 lookiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin down and leash lockes you when you got 150 and they got 225+. Then let the other people start threads on internet about babbling and how they cheat. Just saying.lol

---

__________________
Home of..

RIP - GR.NT.CH. , PKC CH. AKC NT.CH. SPIDERMAN SAM.


Contact Kenney Clark - 330-738-3019 CELL- 330-205 3299

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Mulberry Grove, Illinois
Posts: 638

I am not sure how it is not a level playing field. If anything, I would think the silent dog is at a disadvantage. I understand that being silent is a fault according to ukc. But how does anyone figure a silent dog has a advantage? I mean after all, doesn't he have to find a track and tree it just like an open trail hound? Only difference I see is he will most likey have a lower strike. Sure don't see any advantage there. And just for the record, I don't like silent dogs and won't hunt one.

Last edited by Bobby Reynolds on 01-02-2015 at 10:00 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bobby Reynolds
I am not sure how it is not a level playing field. If anything, I would think the silent dog is at a disadvantage. I understand that being silent is a fault according to ukc. But how does anyone figure a silent dog has a advantage? I mean after all, doesn't he have to find a track and tree it just like an open trail hound? Only difference I see is he will most likey have a lower strike. Sure don't see any advantage there. And just for the record, I don't like silent dogs and won't hunt one.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
You are joking....right????? You don't see how a silent dog can run a coon track without the coon he's trailing know it until the dog gets to within probably 20 to 30 feet of the unsuspecting coon and pop it up the nearest probably not hollow tree???? While the open trailer lets his coon know he's coming way before that. The difference is that the silent dog leaves his coon with no chance to even think about running on and possibly making it back to his den tree never to be seen {zero plus points.}

---

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

---

Originally posted by john Duemmer
If what you say were true every $KC. hunter in the country would be leading a silent dog.......Fact is the strike points put them at a definite disadvantage BUT when you see the odd one that can overcome the disadvantage and do some winnin, you are lookin at a bonified COONDOG.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: east/Tennessee
Posts: 479

yet again we getting off topic did I make right call not voting to scratch the dog.........some one said a silent dog trees more coons because the dog can get with in 20 to 30 feet of the coon without giving him a chance to run and get to den,,, maybe that could be true but I have calendar that I keep records of trees/coons.dens.slicks.off game for each dog I hunt two years a go ol red treed 161 coons 9 dens 7 slicks he opens more than I want....if u see a lot of dens get more dog power or point him the other way he is back tracking

__________________
......if you have more circle than plus points you ain't got a coon dog

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2011
Location:
Posts: 856

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
Watch a silent dog work at night??? O.K. if you say so.
One thing I have always noticed about the way guys brag that silent dogs are so much better when it comes to the fact that they can tree more coons...they only ever compare them to dogs that run open. How many times have I heard some braggart say, " yep, my silent dog will always tree more than your open trailer." These people like to win, hate to lose and have to play with a deck stacked in their favor. I have yet to hear, and probably never will, one of them say, "you know this silent dog is so great that we need to have a kennel club exclusive to them. Yep, we need a silent dog only competition so we can see who really has the best dog." Nope, not one time. We wont hear it because with a level playing field they really all of a sudden might not win and that is just no fun.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Somerville Alabama
Posts: 851

I have handled Silent Hounds and Semi- Silent and Fully Open Hounds for myself and the public for 25 years. On just these face values the Fully Open dog always has the advantage everything else being equal. Where a Silent Hound will stripe your rear is when the hound is a dead loner that can and will hunt wide when need be. Where the Silent Hound and the Semi-Silent Hound get the shaft is when casts are dropping directly on Feeder Buckets. Facts are Facts.....

__________________
- WHITE OAK ENGLISH COONHOUNDS -
(256)797-2716
dillard568@yahoo.com

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged