Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

Yeah dogs that are weak in the tracking or treeing department Shouldnt be breed.Id say the key to successful x-breeding is breeding balanced dogs that can do it all.Im sure you would get a big mixed bag of traits if not real selective.Then again I'm no breeder

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
I am beginning to feel Coonhunters think they can fix anything with training when the facts are we could do a better job if we didn't breed half the dogs we do. Breeding is the most important thing we do and like the fox hunters that got rid of the foxhounds that treed if the Coonhunters got rid of the coon hounds that won't tree or won't hunt we would be better off. Instead of that we try and figure out how to make one trail better, hunt harder and tree more accurate. Then make it the mom or dad of our next litter and wonder why they won't track, hunt or tree.

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Registered: Jul 2014
Location:
Posts: 45

Ise allways notise dem walcurs slick trees.,

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 170

I have hunted walker dogs all my life I have hunted with a few good ones but this all grand dogs are breed up so tight that they have breed the track power and they are accurate walker dogs but they are very few that I have hunted with lately so I'm changing breeds

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 170

I'm a walker man but they are a lot of slick treeing walker dogs this days I have had probably 30 young dogs in the last 10 years I have had one that stayed at my house I'm really liking what I see out of red dogs this days so I'm trying something else for a while

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Back in the early 70's it seemed like every fox hunter had at least one in their pack that would tree. The owner would get tired of that and they would migrate to a Coonhunters house. Not sure how much of that happened in other parts of the country.

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Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4543

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
It's almost comical how many believe breeding is some kind of mathematical equation, two plus two equals four. Hard runner bred to hard treer equals hard running hard treeing coondog. If only it was so.

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Registered: Sep 2013
Location: Waldron, Arkansas
Posts: 1333

quote:

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Originally posted by buck brush
Bruce you hit the nail on the head with this statement if people would just not pass the bad one around we would have a better stock of hounds, if one does not have what I think it takes to do it right it does not leave my house and go to another,

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Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 1009

I believe a hot nosed tree dog will almost always beat a cold nosed track dog in a competition hunt. I wish someone would post winning %s at the end of the year though. There was an interesting article in bloodlines about B&Ts winning 37% placements at the Winter Classic last year.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1701

quote:

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Originally posted by kenney Clark
Walker power, they need it. We know it, and they know it. Lol., call it what you want, but we know if it made any thing of a dog, it was the walker they needed., . other breeds dont have the heart, the tree power, or the hunt to compete on regular basis, so breed there breed to a walker. Now we can all be happy., yea...

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Registered: May 2005
Location: virginia
Posts: 7043

quote:

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Originally posted by Cry Tough Blues
How did the treeing get put in the running dog, I have deer hunted with running dogs majority of my life here in Florida and have never seen one or heard one tree a coon, possum etc. not talking about triggs talking about julys and other running walkers

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Registered: Apr 2013
Location: michigan
Posts: 416

i dont know, i think you guys are looking at a bigger picture then me and i truliy dont care about that bigger picture right now i got a 3/4 redbone 1/4 plott hound that is a nice dog i can be honest and hunt him now thats the way i see it dont care about being the next new thing or fixing a bred just away to stay honest and hunt my hound sure ill catch hell for this but i hunt redbones and im on the internet you have to have thick skin

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Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 163

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
It's almost comical how many believe breeding is some kind of mathematical equation, two plus two equals four. Hard runner bred to hard treer equals hard running hard treeing coondog. If only it was so.

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: alabama
Posts: 351

My dad told me he started coon hunting back in the 50's with fox dogs that started treeing when they got a little age on them, it was not uncommon for several of the young ones t tree also

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1650

some great walkers out there ive hunted with plenty. hunted with plenty though during drought, real cold weather hunting, or thin coon that came up short a lot. crossbreds from time to time make some serious dogs, big game and coon dogs. nothing to laugh at.

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
I am beginning to feel Coonhunters think they can fix anything with training when the facts are we could do a better job if we didn't breed half the dogs we do. Breeding is the most important thing we do and like the fox hunters that got rid of the foxhounds that treed if the Coonhunters got rid of the coon hounds that won't tree or won't hunt we would be better off. Instead of that we try and figure out how to make one trail better, hunt harder and tree more accurate. Then make it the mom or dad of our next litter and wonder why they won't track, hunt or tree.

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: SE Iowa
Posts: 950

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Yeah, I don't think we will see many breeding a Black dog to a Bluetick or a Redbone to a Plott. When it is all said and done, cross breeding is mostly a way for these guys to hunt a Walker without hunting a Walker.

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Roger it is actually the person like you that is most affected by others poor breeding practices.

Put a litter of pups up for sale and several of the guys interested are young men with no big picture and many with no real experience in Coon Hunting, Coon hound training, coon hound breeding or even proper care of the pup. None the less thousands of young and old alike buy a coonhound bred pup and start out on their adventure. The more Genetic ability the pup has to help the person with their journey the better off both will be. That is basically what I am talking about here. Starting off with a pup that could make a world champion in the right hands and ending up a solid coondog owned by a person having fun with it, is not a bad thing. Now a young person starting off with a dog that won't hunt, won't tree, couldn't smell a donut in a bakery. We we read about them everyday on here, is a bad thing. It's bad because the person gets discouraged.

Care and Training go hand in hand with Genetics to get the end result we want. If these dogs were never bred to pass their genitecs on to the next generation of dogs and each person trained any breed or dog to be coonhounds then Genetics would not be important. Just get a dog that is pretty to you and every post would be how to train a dog which can be done by the RIGHT person.

Mr. Fisher I think the dogs environment and training is right up there with Genetics in importance. They have to have both. I am old and I only have energy to type about one at a time. lol
Just like every pup does not have the genetics to make a coonhound, every person does not have the ability, time and money to train one. Here is another simplification. Figure up the hours it will take to train a pup to be a coonhound. Put it on paper and ask 100 guys if they have the time to do it. Ask their wives if they have the time to do it. Most train as bad as others breed. Room for improvement in every area.

Question about the Gun Dog Men? You think every bird hunter or duck hunter trains their own dogs? Many leave that to the Professional Trainers. You think every Guard Dog is trained by their owners. Many are trained by professionals and after that the owners are screened to see if them and the dog bond. Not coonhunting. Everyone thinks they can train a coonhound. I love this sport and actually want to support that notion. Only way to do it is with the right Genetics in the hounds and let the hound train the handler. Why does everyone usually only have a few good dogs in their life. If you can train what it takes for a hound to be top notch then one person having 10 dogs over 30 years should be able to train them all the same. They can't and the difference is the genetics in each dog. Your Journey starts with the dogs Genetics.

Last edited by on 12-21-2014 at 02:27 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: AUBURN, IN.
Posts: 1706

I can remember when a WALKER would not tree a lick --he sure could get it to the tree --but U had to have a COLOR dog of some source to tree it, while the WALKER was out getting another track going --but when U could get one to stop he was a good one ---MILLER'S LITTLE JOKER --would run anything that made a track --when he was young --couldn't hunt him around a railroad track --LAVERN SAID HE WOULD RUN IT ---LOL LOL LOL

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Registered: Sep 2013
Location: Waldron, Arkansas
Posts: 1333

A well bred, genetically proven sire and dam that produces top notch hounds are usually awhole lot easier to start for me! I'll never go back to the way I used to do it. I am convinced! I also only work on 1 pup at a time and give all my time to him. This is new to me as well, but it seems to work better for me and the pup. Good post Bruce!

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Registered: Apr 2013
Location: michigan
Posts: 416

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
[B]Roger it is actually the person like you that is most affected by others poor breeding practices.

Put a litter of pups up for sale and several of the guys interested are young men with no big picture and many with no real experience in Coon Hunting, Coon hound training, coon hound breeding or even proper care of the pup. None the less thousands of young and old alike buy a coonhound bred pup and start out on their adventure. The more Genetic ability the pup has to help the person with their journey the better off both will be. That is basically what I am talking about here. Starting off with a pup that could make a world champion in the right hands and ending up a solid coondog owned by a person having fun with it, is not a bad thing. Now a young person starting
i agree with all you said Bruce very true I gusse i got side tracked on your post with jims reply the last thing any one I know wants is to cross one of these fine redbone with a walker i think it would be more the other way,i might be wrong been known to and not trying to start a bred war we all love our breds

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location: FLATWOODS SOUTH GA
Posts: 76

When ukc made the move to only allow registered dogs to be able to be entered in a coonhound event. This sure helped with the problem with the steeling of dogs no doubt. With this said I think they made a great decision when they decided to start the x breed. This should, in theory, make it a little easier and open up a new customer base for all coon hunting clubs and ukc. Back in the day I have seen a lot of grade dogs show up at hunts and take home some nice trophies and prizes. If they show up to hunt, let them hunt. Hopefully this will help with the declining numbers at the local hunts. The definition of insanity is when you keeping doing the same thing and expecting different results. Everyone has there own opinion of what breed is better. That's just one of the things that makes the sport of competition hunting so interesting. I know this is a little off subject of what you have originally posted. Would like to know what you think.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Abbeville S.C.
Posts: 979

I like Black dogs have tryed to find one I like for three years could not find one I liked now I have one Grand Daughter to Hardrock top side and James Merchants dogs on bottomside.Now she is the kind I like that has coons when you go to the tree and don't run around in the pen barking and pacing all day.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

"--couldn't hunt him around a railroad track --LAVERN SAID HE WOULD RUN IT "

They must have bred this dog a lot back then...a lot of his "breedin" still shows up today!!!! Who was the one back then that barked all day in the kennel???? They sure bred the heck out of him too!!!!

For some strange reason people think that breeding dogs is a filter each time it happens and that it will purify or get out the bad. Like a previous post said, breed a track dog to a tree dog and get a track dog that trees but unfortunately it doesn't work that way. I think one of the simplest concepts many self professed "breeders" miss is that you are likely to get the average of both parents litters. This is why so many fantastic males are bred to even more fantastic females and the pups are not quite the world class dogs they envisioned. Mom and dad were one truly fantastic dog out of three generations, not just a big hunt winner. If the last 200 pups between the two parent dogs only produced them...what did they think was gonna happen??? It's breeding dogs, not distilling them.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location:
Posts: 207

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
It's almost comical how many believe breeding is some kind of mathematical equation, two plus two equals four. Hard runner bred to hard treer equals hard running hard treeing coondog. If only it was so.

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