Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

have any of you ever hunted in a hunt before? I sure would be a hoot drawing some of you.

__________________
Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't need any help...happy to answer this.
Two dog cast, A and B are struck in for 100 {1st} and 75 {2nd}in that order. Dog B quits and receives minus points. He then goes back in and is struck again...remember, we only have one set of strike points the track has been kept open. He goes back in for 50. Why 50??? Because two dogs have already been struck. 1st and 2nd have been used. Only 3rd and 4th remain, so he gets 3rd strike because it was the third time a dog has been struck. If he quits again, or lets say the A dog quits, you don't move the dog that was struck third all the way up to first and give the dog that was struck on the same track the fourth time a second. Eventually you get down to where only 4th strike is left if they don't minus out.
The biggest thing about all this is that you are cheating other casts when you allow more points to be counted than are available to receive.

---

__________________
Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

---

Originally posted by buck brush
where do you see this rule. when this dog B comes in and is MIN. his strike points are open again if he goes back in and strikes again he is struck for 75.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

MSINC
Just a question for you. Why do you want to know the club and dates? Nothing can be done to change a score card 30 minutes after deadline UNLESS a formal complaint has been filed. So knowing the club and dates at this time would do you no good.

Personally I don't own an advisor......but going by the rules in the rule book. Once a position is scored it becomes open except you can't strike back in over a dog working a track except rule 2C.

Here's another unrelated question for you 3 dogs are treed (4 dog cast) you score the tree......coon seen so plused up. As your walking away before dogs are turned loose the handler of dog D trees his dog. Does he have to hold his tree for 5 minutes before going to it? To me this answer is just as simple as my original question on this post.

__________________
Frank Manning
(810) 347-5292
Home of
GrNtCh GrCh PKC Ch 'PR' Kate N Roys Demon Seed

NtCh FCh CH 'PR' Just A Dog


Just hunting to have some fun.
Use only the Rules UKC has writen not the ones you think should be there!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2011
Location: indiana
Posts: 236

Once the points have been minused does that not count as them being scored?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mn
Posts: 513

quote:

---

Originally posted by markknepp
Once the points have been minused does that not count as them being scored?

---

__________________
GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

---

Originally posted by markknepp
Once the points have been minused does that not count as them being scored?

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
Go back and read my first post...page 21 and 22 of "The Advisor"...cant believe no one has a copy of this book. This comes up on here about every six months. Last time I think it was happening somewhere in southern West Virginia.

I'd like to ask a few questions of you fellas that believe in opening points back up...{if you'll permit me}...Have any of you actually done this, scored your or someone else's dog this way in a UKC licensed hunt??? How many of you scored your own dogs this way and got a win??? When was the last time you did it this way??? Care to name the club and dates???

---

__________________
Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't need any help...happy to answer this.
Two dog cast, A and B are struck in for 100 {1st} and 75 {2nd}in that order. Dog B quits and receives minus points. He then goes back in and is struck again...remember, we only have one set of strike points the track has been kept open. He goes back in for 50. Why 50??? Because two dogs have already been struck. 1st and 2nd have been used. Only 3rd and 4th remain, so he gets 3rd strike because it was the third time a dog has been struck. If he quits again, or lets say the A dog quits, you don't move the dog that was struck third all the way up to first and give the dog that was struck on the same track the fourth time a second. Eventually you get down to where only 4th strike is left if they don't minus out.
The biggest thing about all this is that you are cheating other casts when you allow more points to be counted than are available to receive.

---

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

Your correct in that only 1 set of strike points. But a track doesn't have to be scored for a position to be scored!

Let me put it this way for you.
Turn dogs loose 2 dogs go right and 2 dogs go left. Dogs that went left come back and get minused (for simple math lets say the had 50,25). Now what point value does the first dog to open receive?

__________________
Frank Manning
(810) 347-5292
Home of
GrNtCh GrCh PKC Ch 'PR' Kate N Roys Demon Seed

NtCh FCh CH 'PR' Just A Dog


Just hunting to have some fun.
Use only the Rules UKC has writen not the ones you think should be there!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

Jim
This question was referring to UKC rules. Thank you for your interpitaton of this rule.

__________________
Frank Manning
(810) 347-5292
Home of
GrNtCh GrCh PKC Ch 'PR' Kate N Roys Demon Seed

NtCh FCh CH 'PR' Just A Dog


Just hunting to have some fun.
Use only the Rules UKC has writen not the ones you think should be there!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Is this a UKC rule question or a PKC rule question? Because when you say "remember, we only have one set of strike points".....that is a PKC rule. In PKC, once a strike position is used, it is not available again until a new strike is open. But in UKC, once a strike position is vacated "minused", it becomes available again.
This is a UKC forum, I will use UKC rules here.

---

__________________
Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

Last edited by buck brush on 12-07-2014 at 11:13 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Is this a UKC rule question or a PKC rule question? Because when you say "remember, we only have one set of strike points".....that is a PKC rule. In PKC, once a strike position is used, it is not available again until a new strike is open. But in UKC, once a strike position is vacated "minused", it becomes available again.
This is a UKC forum, I will use UKC rules here.

---

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1876

I like how your name is at the top allen/ukc/jim yet you have not answered the original question so I'll try if both dogs in question are struck in at the same time its 62.5 split its that simple one is going to get a minus its a bad break for dog b

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

---

Originally posted by groworg1
I like how your name is at the top allen/ukc/jim yet you have not answered the original question so I'll try if both dogs in question are struck in at the same time its 62.5 split its that simple one is going to get a minus its a bad break for dog b

---

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Last edited by JiM on 12-07-2014 at 11:34 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

Let me try this a different way...Rule 2{D} "If a dog is turned in on a trail that is being worked it gets the next available position. A dog cannot be struck in over a position that is being held {except 2{C}}MULTIPLE DOGS MAY OCCUPY 4TH POSITION. Once a position has been scored it becomes available again."

Now, why or how could multiple dogs occupy 4th strike if every time one was minused you moved the rest up???

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

[QUOTE]Originally posted by groworg1
I like how your name is at the top allen/ukc/jim yet you have not answered the original question so I'll try if both dogs in question are struck in at the same time its 62.5 split its that simple one is going to get a minus its a bad break for dog b [/QUOTE

If you agree that one dog deserves minus and one has an honest second strike..... why would you split points?
one dog deserves 75 minus and one should be on the card for 75.
Either one handler will fess up and say he called the wrong dog or the judge needs to make the call.

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

They don't move them up because that position is not available. Why? Because you have a dog(s) struck below that position making if no longer available. However, if no dogs are struck for positions below the minused position, THEN that position is open. Understand?

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
Let me try this a different way...Rule 2{D} "If a dog is turned in on a trail that is being worked it gets the next available position. A dog cannot be struck in over a position that is being held {except 2{C}}MULTIPLE DOGS MAY OCCUPY 4TH POSITION. Once a position has been scored it becomes available again."

Now, why or how could multiple dogs occupy 4th strike if every time one was minused you moved the rest up???

---

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Is this a UKC rule question or a PKC rule question? Because when you say "remember, we only have one set of strike points".....that is a PKC rule. In PKC, once a strike position is used, it is not available again until a new strike is open. But in UKC, once a strike position is vacated "minused", it becomes available again.
This is a UKC forum, I will use UKC rules here.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

---

Originally posted by john Duemmer
You can try it 50 different ways and you will still be wrong.. read the last sentence in the rule you quoted. once a dog is minused that position is considered scored and becomes available again.

---

Last edited by msinc on 12-08-2014 at 12:00 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
Make no mistake about it, UKC has one set and one set only of strike points. Dogs do not advance in points over another just because he was minused. There are four strike positions, when all four have been used then only 25 for fourth remains available. I will challenge all you to show me the rule that says to keep advancing strike {or tree for that matter} points. Simple question is how can you have two second strikes when there is only one per track???

---

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
Make no mistake about it, UKC has one set and one set only of strike points. Dogs do not advance in points over another just because he was minused. There are four strike positions, when all four have been used then only 25 for fourth remains available. I will challenge all you to show me the rule that says to keep advancing strike {or tree for that matter} points. Simple question is how can you have two second strikes when there is only one per track???

---

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mn
Posts: 513

quote:

---

Originally posted by msinc
Then tell us how multiple dogs can occupy 4th strike...

---

__________________
GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mn
Posts: 513

you are not holding a strike position once it is minused

__________________
GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged