Registered: May 2004
Location: Sullivan IL.
Posts: 3060

Rance If you talked to a vet that might be it. you do not have to be a vet to do this. I jusdt had 2 differant female done, the 1st one did not take the second female had 13. As far as the pups not turning out how many pups turn out of regular breeding? I would think not so good. ( if we are honest with our selfs) A stud dog breed 3 females in a month and 1 pup does a good job but 1 litter off fozon semon dosn't turn out and thier is something wrong. I have made very nice crosses on 2 very good good coon dog and got nothing.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: tekonsha mich
Posts: 2025

I have no worries breeding AI as far as the quality of the pups. My own experience with it is 0 for 2. So I bred natural and she is loaded with pups. I am not blaming anyone I just haven't had as good as luck as alot of people that AI their females.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

Mark,

If the females you bred were young and semen looked good.....sounds like a timing issue to me. Fresh semen can stay alive for up to a week. So it's pretty easy to just take a wild guess and still get a litter.

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Registered: Jul 2010
Location: Green Bay, Va.
Posts: 141

Kristen, When a female runs out of eggs in her "store", will her heat cycles end forever?

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

Kevin....I have an 11 year old female that still comes in season. The issue is the viability of the uterus, the cytology of the uterus, the morphology of the uterus and that the "eggs" are 11 yrs old. To put it in very simple terms. It is pretty outdated produce on the shelf. ;-)

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location:
Posts: 74

But it doesn't matter how old the semen is if it is frozen ? Or the age of the male at the time of collecting ?

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

Clavey....


Think of semen as a light with a dimmer switch. When you use fresh semen that light is turned all the way on. After 4 or 5 days it burns out. With chilled semen it is dimmed while it is chilled and has used up some energy but is turned all the way up when it is put in the bitch and burns out in 2-3 days. With frozen the light is turned off....until it is thawed. But it went through manipulation and process so when you turn it back on (thaw it) it lasts 1-2 days. Eventually the cells will not revive. But it will be long after you and I are gone. The older semen around now was frozen with extenders that were not as good as what we have today. Also straws expose more surface area to the LN2 vs pellets. Another factor is that when semen in straws gets passed around very often the original paperwork is lost. It leaves the inseminator scratching their head as to what actually constitutes a breeding "unit". With most semen being frozen in vials it eliminates the issue for people that may use it 20 years from now. A vial is a breeding unit. Whether or not it contains 3 pellets or 30 pellets. That IS a breeding unit.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

And the older the male the less viable he will be. Now...I have recently collected an 11 yr old and froze semen on him that was excellent. I have seen 5 yr olds not be viable. I think it is an individual thing with stud dogs. With bitches though...they do not manufacture new eggs. A male is constantly making new semen. What comes out the shoot today was "made" 2 months ago. Hope that answers your questions! Keep them coming I love talking shop!

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Latta, SC
Posts: 1021

Not that it pertains to cost, but I have wondered about the effect of a male or female dog getting overheated and will it effect the fertility of either as to smaller litters or missing all together

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

Hi James!! Yes....overheating DEFINITELY can affect a males sperm!! I am not sure on females but with males it is a huge issue in the summer!

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Forest, Ohio 45843
Posts: 3092

I have had 4 females AI and only had 1 pup from all 3 times.. Im not sold on the AI ... I'm sure I can do better than that with a syringe and a pc of plastic tubing .. I will use the flag method... I took a female over that was ready to breed her at home and waited 10 days to breed her... No pups.. I also took one over that was on her 1st day of bleeding and he bred her in 6 days...No Pups... Not very good odds... I also was planning to breed another female ans I asked if he missed this one would he buy the stud fee to rebreed because the stud owner does not stand behind the AI for rebreeds... His Answer was NO.... It's kinda like being a weather man... You just gotta be close 25% of the time...

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

Chris,
I am sorry you had such bad experiences. Not sure who did it but the age of the female does play a big factor. Were any of the females over the age of 7? And also you are only as good as what is handed to you. So if the semen quality wasn't up to par there really isn't much you can do. I know people like to blame the inseminator or the process. The only thing an inseminator can do is make sure she is timed properly. If the originating facility didn't put up their frozen semen great than we as inseminators are left with sub par to work with. Hand us an older female and it's even harder.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Forest, Ohio 45843
Posts: 3092

blocksporthound.... I'm so Glad you ASKED... One female was 3.5 and the other was 2.5 the frozen pellets where from Mr Clean... These females where Not old and the sample was not from an old male... Point blank you can figure out who did my AI from my location in OHIO and the location of Mr Clean.. Brian would not do a live breed because it was right before he won last world hunt. I did live breed a 7 year old female 2 months before that to him and got me 7 big fat pups.. If you ask around a lot more have missed from this location than have had success .. Sad part is most guys drive 8-16 hours hoping for pups and to their disappointment they only end up with about a $1000 rapped up in fees and travel... This stinks.. I'm pretty sure I would roll the dice to have fresh shipped and do it myself..

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Mounds, Oklahoma
Posts: 1070

quote:

---

Originally posted by CLAVEYRIVERCURS
What is the COST of having a stud dog collected and stored ?How long can it be stored ? And what is the cost of having a female AI'ed ? If you have done this or are doing this what are your thoughts on it ?

---

I took my male down to All Pets Medical Center in Altus, Oklahoma to have him collected and a female bred to some nineteen year old semen from another stud. The total cost for boarding both dogs for one week, all the tests and surgery of AI'ing the female and collecting my male twice was $1,310. In two collections I got eighteen breedings stored on my male and my female had eleven live puppies born on June 23rd. She wound up raising seven healthy pups and she is a nine year old female.

Dr. Kenneth O'Hanlon told me it had been fourteen months since they missed a coonhound breeding at his facility. He also noted that female was eleven years old and felt they weren't going to be successful but the owner said if he could get "just one pup" it would be a successful try.

Here is a pic of my frozen semen litter taken last week.

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location:
Posts: 74

Sure am glad it work out so well for you. That's why I stared this post to hear the GOOD and the BAD. I've got no problem pay good money for something, But the thought of going into something I know nothing about and getting skinned just don't set well with me. I do know more now then when I started and looking to learn more.

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location:
Posts: 74

What are some of the RED flags to look for or listen for when looking for the right Vet or Company to do this. Like % rate, willingness to AI a older female, Price. And what are some of the things that we should be hearing as well ?

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

Dr. O'Hanlon is a good guy and I have done business with him with greyhounds. I always suggest him in OK and Dr. Kent Law in Abilene, KS.

Not to advertise but there is an excellent power point on my websites home page at http://www.blocksporthounds.com that answers a ton of questions!

Honestly the one big thing in breeding is timing. Ask them how they time or what lab they are using. The labs can unfortunately vary wildly. I have seen serum split in to and sent to two different labs and numbers were so far apart it was scary.

I have seen dogs freeze. Post thaw, great, and it never hit with anything. I have a greyhound like that. I can only venture to guess that something with the uterus is a hostile environment to his semen.

You need 100 million LIVE, NORMAL, forwardly motile cells to impregnate a female. Whether that 100 million is coming from fresh, chilled or frozen.

Semen MUST have 50% motility or do NOT freeze it. No matter how bad you want to preserve that dog you are WASTING money.

If the bitch is over 7 and you are using frozen semen and haven't bred her in several cycles, consider a surgical implant. The vet can see the uterus and pinch off cysts and polyps.

Most misses are not misses. Unless.....the timing was that far off.

Make an effort to be there to watch the insemination and see the semen thawed and under the microscope with your own eyes. Everyone knows moving is good, not moving is bad. Transparency with your inseminator is key. If your bitch has had misses let's talk about it.

You are are team with your inseminator. We want to know about your female and if you have questions and if she is pregnant and how many pups she had.

Honesty IS the best policy. If you are questioning something or have concerns, let your inseminator or facility know.

And lastly, go somewhere where this is what they do....not someone that does a few breedings a year. Most vets will admit, they don't know a lot about reproduction. Just the basics.

If you have your vet time your bitch make sure they are NOT using a serum separator blood tube. It EATS the hormone thus your numbers are way off!! I would hate to tell you how often I have seen this happen.....and recently!!

And lastly...even if I am not your facility. Please feel free to call me with questions. I am a breeder myself and I know good and well the money, the hopes and dreams, and the potential income that hangs in the balance.

~Kristin

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