Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

Some guys can drive Dan Patch, some will drive the old grey mare and...... Lone Pine John might have to be in for a rude awakening one day! If memory serves me correctly, I have proof at the house of where I even came to his part of the country one day and took some names. lol.

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: burnt district MO/KS border
Posts: 787

come to think of it.........at least Allen titled one or two......has Kellam ever even entered a night hunt ?? :/


I know he has been on a few........some final casts even.....but entered??? not sure I ever heard one way or the other

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Lake City, SC
Posts: 345

quote:

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Originally posted by Billy Beckham
Lets keeping making it easier until we just give participation awards.

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Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 1009

A nitech back then meant something. I place little value in that title.

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Shane

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Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

IMO, it should be left alone. Its been the way it is for decades and has seemed to work so why monkey with it, now?

Yes, there used to be a lot more dogs at hunts but there also used to be a lot more dogs in hunts that wouldn't bark up a tree. There were also more handlers that had no clue on the rules and didn't know much more about coonhunting in general.

Nowadays there are a lot fewer dogs but the ones there are will almost all tree a coon. Most of the handlers left know the rules and many of them will also conveniently NOT know the rules if its a benefit to winning.

So, it all evens out and you still have to know HOW its done for it to mean anything.

Everyone who's GrNt'd a dog has some cast wins where they didn't get a NtCh win. Its part of it.

jmo.

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Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Moncks Corner, South Carolina
Posts: 1814

The hunts you are going to must draw a lot more entries than the ones here. If I go to 20 hunts at least 10 of those will only have 1 NtCh cast and maybe 3 or 4 will have more than 2 NtCh casts. But like John says, most of those dogs are pretty good and have handlers that can back them.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 1309

quote:

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Originally posted by shane_atchison
A nitech back then meant something. I place little value in that title.

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'Pr' Grnitech Pkc Ch. Skuna River Midnight Moe
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'Pr' Nitech. Stylish Clover Shark Jill
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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

I say no.
Some times it is the luck of the draw of your guide Can't beat a dog that gets into 5 coon versus your casts 3.Or can you??Yes at times.
A good dog that makes no mistakes will get their wins.
I know a local fella that it took 5 years ....19 seconds.I think like 13 or15 thirds before making nt ch and it was a 2nd at a qualifier that he finally got to finish . He was a consistent cast winner.

If you are always getting beat by 25 or 50 points there is probably a reason.

Say your cast and another cast both score on three coon.
Other cast winners dog A is a first and second type dog .Yours dog B is not a good strike dog but is usually but not always a first tree type.
Which one do you think will bring in the most points/wins ?

DOG A
First Coon 75 + 125+ = 200+
Second Coon 75+ 75+ = 150+
Third Coon 100+ 75+ = 175+
Total Score 525+CW

DOG B
First Coon 50 + 125+ = 175+
Second Coon 25+ 125+ = 150+
Third Coon 50+ 125 + = 175+
Total Score 500+CW


Guess what ? You just got beat by 25 points again!!

This is the reason I hunt and breed for first and second type dogs on both ends.Balanced dogs should be the ones advancing to GrNt Ch's

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
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NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
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Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 07-03-2014 at 05:39 PM

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Volunteer State
Posts: 70

quote:

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Originally posted by Billy Beckham
Lets keeping making it easier until we just give participation awards.

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LETS GO RACKIN!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Batavia,Iowa
Posts: 2623

quote:

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Originally posted by Rac_sacker
Ive been to ukc events where there was only one ntch dog anyway...and heard of numerous events where there were only one dog period...about the same dont ya think?

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2848

quote:

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Originally posted by Pat Bizich

Which one do you think will bring in the most points/wins ?

DOG A
First Coon 75 + 125+ = 200+
Second Coon 75+ 75+ = 150+
Third Coon 100+ 75+ = 175+
Total Score 525+CW

DOG B
First Coon 50 + 125+ = 175+
Second Coon 25+ 125+ = 150+
Third Coon 50+ 125 + = 175+
Total Score 500+CW


Guess what ? You just got beat by 25 points again!!

This is the reason I hunt and breed for first and second type dogs on both ends.Balanced dogs should be the ones advancing to GrNt Ch's

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

You only need to come out ahead of the 2nd place dog whether he's in your cast or another cast.

That's how UKC is "unique". You can't just play defense against the dogs you draw because that "other cast" might be having a real coon treeing contest. I think this leads to a more aggressive handling strategy and a more interesting, heads up, hunt.

Hunts where nobody wants to call their dog and are hoping their dog doesn't bark, don't interest me.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Volunteer State
Posts: 70

quote:

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Originally posted by Smoke
Well If there's only 1 or 2 ntch at the hunt it shouldn't be too hard to get the win.

Next idea will be if you just enter your dog in 50 hunts you can make Grand.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Batavia,Iowa
Posts: 2623

quote:

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Originally posted by Rac_sacker
and a GRNT tht gets his wins hunting alone at his home club with his buddy judging is a honorable way to get the title right??

what a joke!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 340

quote:

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Originally posted by berger
This is a very good example of why titles shouldn't mean a whole lot. I would take dog B any Day and any Night over dog A. In dog A it shows 2 out of the 3 coon in this cast of dogs, this dog was not the fastest track dog and was lacking in ability in locating a coon quickly and efficiently.

Dog A showed in this group of dogs that it had more speed on tracking and locating a coon quicker and more efficiently then any other dog in the cast.

So if you want mediocre sub par coon treeing ability keep breeding to dog A.
If you want speed efficient coon treeing ability then breed to Dog B.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2848

quote:

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Originally posted by GES
I am glad that is all so clear to you from a scorecard. The only thing I can tell is dog A was the winner. Maybe he is a first and first type dog, but his handler wants to be sure he is treed? Maybe he smokes a track, but it slow to rollover to a chop? Maybe he is chop mouth both ways and difficult to call? Dog B may be stone silent and gets pitched on strike, but is a 1 bark tree dog. Since you brought it up....keep breeding dogs on papers without actually hunting with them and their offspring and then keep wondering why you aren't getting better dogs.

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: burnt district MO/KS border
Posts: 787

IMO anyone who breeds for titles or based on a scorecard should always make sure there facing down wind.....or risk getting wet.


GRNTCH title means one thing, someone spent a lot of time and money hauling a dog to hunts and thought something of it. That's it. same for the equivalent in other KCs. There are just too many variables to use a title as a license to breed.


I rarely bothered to back a female dog up to a male dog. I rarely let either of the only 2 male dogs ive ever owned cover a female. The best females were allowed 1 maybe 2 litters in there lifetime... but when I did it was based on boths ability ALONE in the woods to produce results (meat on a limb) not on how well they fit a scorecard.

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when policemen ignore the law, then there isn't any law. there's just a fight for survival.

*billy jack

It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.

Robert E. Lee

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Registered: Sep 2013
Location: Waldron, Arkansas
Posts: 1333

Titling a dog does mean something to me. If it doesn't mean anything to the one hunting, then why even go? I could care less what other people think about my dog. Its a personal thing to me! I enjoy the fellowship and the competition, & that's it.

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Waldron, Arkansas
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Registered: Jan 2014
Location: LaGrange, GA
Posts: 435

I personally think its a great idea. As long as they dont go with PKC and let cast wins be won in circle points! That is a no no!

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Registered: Dec 2012
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Posts: 97

I'd rather see the nite CH cast winners draw back out out for an hour with a non hunting judge.

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Mike Wheeler

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Posts: 1009

quote:

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Originally posted by jawgaboy
I personally think its a great idea. As long as they dont go with PKC and let cast wins be won in circle points! That is a no no!

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Shane

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Volunteer State
Posts: 70

quote:

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Originally posted by jawgaboy
I personally think its a great idea. As long as they dont go with PKC and let cast wins be won in circle points! That is a no no!

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LETS GO RACKIN!

Last edited by Rac_sacker on 07-07-2014 at 04:42 PM

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