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quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
Rule 5.D. on my scorecard says " {5}delete points: {D}if half the cast votes to circle and half the cast votes to minus a tree.

???? I know the UKC guys have both "backed" this...but I am having trouble connecting 5, D to this thread. The OP never mentioned this happening. How does 5, D apply to this scenario????

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Bill accidentally cited the 2011 Rulebook. It's an honest mistake and one I make too. If you had the rule #'s memorized then this new re-write has been tough, even if you were one of the ones re-writing!

The rule Bill is referencing is now 5E. If you'll read my reply above your post I think it'll clear it up with rule numbers and explanations.

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Paul Frederick
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Most of us on here will never have to worry about this anyhow. Why? Because we will prolly never run across 3 that would vote to call time. Thats a fact jack.

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Michael Ghorley

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quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Frederick
Bill accidentally cited the 2011 Rulebook. It's an honest mistake and one I make too. If you had the rule #'s memorized then this new re-write has been tough, even if you were one of the ones re-writing!

The rule Bill is referencing is now 5E. If you'll read my reply above your post I think it'll clear it up with rule numbers and explanations.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Frederick
Donald,

Rule 7 in the Official UKC Coonhound Rulebook deals with calling time out. These are the instances when it is appropriate to call time out. The first one says:

"(a) When dogs are getting on highway , trail onto posted land or trail into a place where there is danger to dogs or hunters."

When that condition is met (dogs get on highway, on posted ground, or are in a place of danger) time out may be called if there is a majority of the cast who votes to do so. Whenever timeout is called it has always been that dogs who have strike points pending (struck in but not scored) will have those points deleted (Rule 5(e)), and dogs who have been declared treed prior to calling time out must be scored accordingly (you must score their tree). This is found in Rule 11 (a) "Dogs declared treed within hunting time are eligible for scoring".

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I think the rule you are thinking about is rule 7(f) which deals with a totally different situation. It states:

"If all dogs are declared treed or are on leash time out shall be called after 10 minutes of hunt time has been used walking to each split tree. Time is back in during shining time or if dog leaves tree."

This is talking about calling time out to walk to trees / split trees. The dogs do not have to necessarily be split treed for this to come into effect, but all of them have to be either declared treed or handled. Say, for instance, all 4 dogs are on the same tree a ways away, once the cast uses 10 minutes of hunt time walking to the tree, time out should be called to complete the trip to the tree. You start time back in to score the tree or at any time a dog leaves the tree.

I hope this helps.

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John Smith
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quote:

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Originally posted by ov_blues
Is calling time out to walk to 4 dogs treed together if it takes more than 10 minutes a new UKC rule interpretation?

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
It's not an interpretation, it is a UKC rule. 7(f).

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John Smith
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quote:

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Paul Frederick

*******

I think the rule you are thinking about is rule 7(f) which deals with a totally different situation. It states:

"If all dogs are declared treed or are on leash time out shall be called after 10 minutes of hunt time has been used walking to each split tree. Time is back in during shining time or if dog leaves tree."

This is talking about calling time out to walk to trees / split trees. The dogs do not have to necessarily be split treed for this to come into effect, but all of them have to be either declared treed or handled. Say, for instance, all 4 dogs are on the same tree a ways away, once the cast uses 10 minutes of hunt time walking to the tree, time out should be called to complete the trip to the tree. You start time back in to score the tree or at any time a dog leaves the tree.

I hope this helps [/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Frederick


I think the rule you are thinking about is rule 7(f) which deals with a totally different situation. It states:

"If all dogs are declared treed or are on leash time out shall be called after 10 minutes of hunt time has been used walking to each split tree. Time is back in during shining time or if dog leaves tree."

This is talking about calling time out to walk to trees / split trees. The dogs do not have to necessarily be split treed for this to come into effect, but all of them have to be either declared treed or handled. Say, for instance, all 4 dogs are on the same tree a ways away, once the cast uses 10 minutes of hunt time walking to the tree, time out should be called to complete the trip to the tree. You start time back in to score the tree or at any time a dog leaves the tree.

I hope this helps.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ov_blues
(f) If all dogs are declared treed or are on leash
time out shall be called after 10 minutes of
hunt time has been used walking to each split
tree. Time is back in during shining time or if
dog leaves tree

This rule is for walking to split tree's. It doesn't say anything about walking to 4 dogs treed together. Paul said that if the dogs were treed together a cast could call time out after 10 minutes of walking. That isn't the way the rule is worded.

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When i read rule 11a to me that only means if treed in and hunt time expires not during time out cause during time out hunt time is still left. But i guess you learn things everyday!!!

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UKC. has spoken.

I sometimes wonder if the guys at UKC. stop to consider how a cast can practically apply these interpretations.

Dogs A,B, and C are treed off in the distance, dog D is trailing off in another direction close to a highway so the cast agrees to call timeout.

UKC says the tree gets scored.
First thing we have to do is decide where the cast will meet within 1 hour?
Im sure A,B,andC, want to go handle their dogs, but we cant meet there because handler D is headed in another direction and has no possible way to know where that tree is unless they keep those dogs treeing on a hot summer night for an additional hour, or we can run around the woods screaming for each other,either way the result is a screwed up night.
Or an alternative is Handlers A,B, and C go to score the tree while handler D rounds up his dog and they meet at the trucks. This one sounds better, the problem is now we are left with a situation where either a tree is shined and scored during a timeout or if the clock is started handler D is dog huntin while 10 minutes are clickin off the hunt clock, and theres always the possability that this could happen on a 2 dog cast so this one doesnt work either.

Now lets look at rules 5e and 5f under the delete section. 5e deals with trailing dogs so it only applys to dog D here, 5f says that points are deleted if timeout is called in accordance with rule 7 which does directly apply in this situation to A,B, and C so the question is where would 5f be used if not in this situation?

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Last edited by john Duemmer on 05-31-2014 at 11:09 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by TJ Turner
When i read rule 11a to me that only means if treed in and hunt time expires not during time out cause during time out hunt time is still left. But i guess you learn things everyday!!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
UKC. has spoken.

I sometimes wonder if the guys at UKC. stop to consider how a cast can practically apply these interpretations.

Dogs A,B, and C are treed off in the distance, dog D is trailing off in another direction close to a highway so the cast agrees to call timeout.

UKC says the tree gets scored.
First thing we have to do is decide where the cast will meet within 1 hour?
Im sure A,B,andC, want to go handle their dogs, but we cant meet there because handler D is headed in another direction and has no possible way to know where that tree is unless they keep those dogs treeing on a hot summer night for an additional hour, or we can run around the woods screaming for each other,either way the result is a screwed up night.
Or an alternative is Handlers A,B, and C go to score the tree while handler D rounds up his dog and they meet at the trucks. This one sounds better, the problem is now we are left with a situation where either a tree is shined and scored during a timeout or if the clock is started handler D is dog huntin while 10 minutes are clickin off the hunt clock, and theres always the possability that this could happen on a 2 dog cast so this one doesnt work either.

Now lets look at rules 5e and 5f under the delete section. 5e deals with trailing dogs so it doesnt apply here, 5f says that points are deleted if timeout is called in accordance with rule 7 which does directly apply in this situation so the question is where would 5f be used if not in this situation?

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
TJ, 11(A) has nothing to do with a timeout situation. You are looking at a rule that isn't relevant to the situation at hand.

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quote:

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Originally posted by joey
Yes John 5f does apply but only to the ones being called off for danger. Not the dogs that are treed during hunt time.

I understand your point but look at it like this. Your dog is treed and you declare it. The other three say theirs are close to a road and want to call time. Would you be ok with deleting your tree? I wouldn't.

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This is a new one on me. I thought time out was called and tree wasn't to be scored. Ok, I'm good with that rule. When you go to the tree to score it, is time out still out or do you keep a different time going? Say just the 10 min rule for shining?

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quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
5e covers the ones in danger. If we dont use 5f for the treed dogs i see no reason for it to be on the card.

I will take my chances that it would be pretty darn rare to draw 3 cheaters in the same cast.

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if you have the majority.you have 3 people to score.
why does a dog have to tree for hour waiting on a dog?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ky Show Girl
if you have the majority.you have 3 people to score.
why does a dog have to tree for hour waiting on a dog?

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