Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

hunts use to be 4 hours or more long buy the end off the cast the dog that won had realy acoplished something treeing pet coons off feeder buckets should be banned reading the rules often seems to help me out and can come in handly when ya can reference to ole slick when ya need 2 knowing every rule is the best defence to combat a cheater

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe~mcavoy
was it you?

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location:
Posts: 246

Lol i love it !

Don't let em meet ya off that tree!..... if they ain't a treein their a leavin go east n West on their a$$

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Registered: Nov 2013
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Posts: 195

I guess it's ok for judges climbing den trees to look inside or another judge cursing, ranting, raving when a cast member mentioned that the judges dog showed aggressive behavior. At the next drop the judge did not get first strike or tree so even though his dog should have been treed third he waited until the tree was about to close to tree his dog knowing that the longer they stayed treed the more likely his dog would run a couple others off the tree. Or another judge trying to intimidate a young teenage boy to gain first strike and tree points. All of these were witnessed in the first three hunts I attended.

It is my belief that alot of this could be nipped in the bud by disallowing a hunting judge. If a club cannot provide enough non hunting judges then they should not have a hunt. All clubs holding nite hunts should have a panel of judges available for the hunt . if all club members were willing to step up and guide and judge a cast more than likely there would be enough help that some members would still be able to enter a hound . When we start putting our selfishness aside and put the welfare of the sport and integrity of the clubs first you would see a come back in participation !

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: RICHMOND MO
Posts: 1083

quote:

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Originally posted by pabeagler
I guess it's ok for judges climbing den trees to look inside or another judge cursing, ranting, raving when a cast member mentioned that the judges dog showed aggressive behavior. At the next drop the judge did not get first strike or tree so even though his dog should have been treed third he waited until the tree was about to close to tree his dog knowing that the longer they stayed treed the more likely his dog would run a couple others off the tree. Or another judge trying to intimidate a young teenage boy to gain first strike and tree points. All of these were witnessed in the first three hunts I attended.

It is my belief that alot of this could be nipped in the bud by disallowing a hunting judge. If a club cannot provide enough non hunting judges then they should not have a hunt. All clubs holding nite hunts should have a panel of judges available for the hunt . if all club members were willing to step up and guide and judge a cast more than likely there would be enough help that some members would still be able to enter a hound . When we start putting our selfishness aside and put the welfare of the sport and integrity of the clubs first you would see a come back in participation !

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Reelsville , Indiana
Posts: 1124

You guys that want to run down the hunts need to keep in mind this is an open public forum. Yesterday I tried to promote our two night hunt coming up this weekend. Had two replies asking about how many crooks to expect and "be ready for bucket hunters". The best part is, like you guys starting this stuff, have never been to our club before. lol,

STFU. Quit whining, be a man and question a call if you don't like it. If you're right and you question something, shouldn't have anything to be worried about. Right? Right.

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Registered: Nov 2013
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Posts: 195

You guys that want to run down the hunts need to keep in mind this is an open public forum. Yesterday I tried to promote our two night hunt coming up this weekend. Had two replies asking about how many crooks to expect and "be ready for bucket hunters". The best part is, like you guys starting this stuff, have never been to our club before. lol,_

There were no clubs named anywhere in this thread. This topic was not started to offend anyone. But just a topic for discussion. But I remember a time before the hunting judge came about. It seems there was alot more participation and alot less controversy ! ! !

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: RICHMOND MO
Posts: 1083

I believe there are excellent clubs out there and there are some great guys out there as well. I have 2 sons that love to hunt but I've never exposed them to the competition hunts simply because the crowd that this area seems to draw. It appears that I'm a minority at some of these hunts becau se I was blessed to have a toothbrush as a child, no criminal record and I'm employed. I would like to see non hunting judges more often. I've been at this game for about 25 years and around here it has really taken a turn for the worse. I have to say that I went to a rqe at a club 3 hours south of here and had good judging and the club had a feeling of honest authority.

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Registered: Sep 2012
Location: indiana/brazil
Posts: 307

quote:

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Originally posted by pabeagler
I guess it's ok for judges climbing den trees to look inside or another judge cursing, ranting, raving when a cast member mentioned that the judges dog showed aggressive behavior. At the next drop the judge did not get first strike or tree so even though his dog should have been treed third he waited until the tree was about to close to tree his dog knowing that the longer they stayed treed the more likely his dog would run a couple others off the tree. Or another judge trying to intimidate a young teenage boy to gain first strike and tree points. All of these were witnessed in the first three hunts I attended.

It is my belief that alot of this could be nipped in the bud by disallowing a hunting judge. If a club cannot provide enough non hunting judges then they should not have a hunt. All clubs holding nite hunts should have a panel of judges available for the hunt . if all club members were willing to step up and guide and judge a cast more than likely there would be enough help that some members would still be able to enter a hound . When we start putting our selfishness aside and put the welfare of the sport and integrity of the clubs first you would see a come back in participation !

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6868

Having non hunting judges would not solve the issue. Fact is there are some sorry men out there in these hunts and some have been sorry their entire life. Only the Lord above could change some of these mens attitudes. Sometimes a non hunting judge would help but again the judge be it hunting or non hunting needs to display honesty and know the rules.

These hunts are all about the luck of the draw. When you enter hopefully you get a good cast of sportsman but if you know you drew a bad apple or 2 you can request a non hunting judge. But when you do beware everyone there will think your a cry baby for doing so.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Pabeagler,

Non hunting judges are not the answer. I have many more horror stories about non hunting judges than I do hunting judges. The worst part of non hunting judges is MOH will almost always side with them even when they out right lie.


General comment to the thread: if you don't like the judges, learn the rules, and step up and take the card. If our responsible people won't step up, then they are part of the problem. You want to make the hunts better ... then step up.

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Registered: Oct 2012
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Posts: 246

I personally love drawing guys that cry like some of these guys on this thread because after I beat their mediocre pot lickers I get to laugh when they tell their story back at the club or on here !

Learn the rules learn your dog and learn the difference between a good dog and a sorry one dog feed is the same price so might as well feed a good one or you can keep playing the victim every weekend

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Pamplin Va.
Posts: 454

Most of the time when I get screwed it is because of what I have on the end of the lead or a poor decision I have made. Perhaps we should change to participation hunting instead of compitetion hunting. Lets just go hunt have fun give everybody a ribbon at the end of the night, and everybody goes home happy.

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Dean Jamerson

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6868

quote:

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Originally posted by dean jamerson
Most of the time when I get screwed it is because of what I have on the end of the lead or a poor decision I have made. Perhaps we should change to participation hunting instead of compitetion hunting. Lets just go hunt have fun give everybody a ribbon at the end of the night, and everybody goes home happy.

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Grand Nite Ch HOF PKC Silver Ch Heatseaker Unleash the Kraken(Grand at 15 months old) BBOA Overall 1st place X2, Tournament of Champions Finalist, National Bluetic Days overall winner, Autumn Oaks Grand 16x2 PKC SS Semi Finalist PKC State Hunt Final 4 UKC World Top 20
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Trevor Hack
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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 284

quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
So,

Dean what do you do in a 4 dog cast when you have a whole coon plain as day and 2 of the other members go blind? Now keep in mind you spent time, gas, and money entering this hunt. What is your next move?

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Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Brookville, PA
Posts: 2461

quote:

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Originally posted by Josh Michaelis

Most of the people that I have seen that complain about cheating have an opinion of their dog that is just not realistic.

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Registered: Jul 2011
Location:
Posts: 354

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe~mcavoy
If your getting "cheated/screwed" all the time take a step back and figure out the common denominator I bet its you!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

IMO, a few things have happened to lead to this. First, titles are worth a lot more. Not only in TRL but also in Perf. points, which is pure MONEY. Recognition and money bring out the worst IN people and bring out the worst people.

The other issue is that hunt numbers are a fraction of what they used to be. In years' past you could go to several hunts a year and seldom draw the same guys. Now, you will draw the same guys and dogs over and over again. If you make someone mad, he will still be mad when you draw him the next time. He will think YOU are the cheater if you apply the rules to strictly.

I also believe that more good guys have quit, than "other" guys. These "other" guys now have a majority in many casts. If 2 guys want to go blind seeing a coon, there is not a thing you can do about it. They will also cheat each other until it gets to the point they are just taking turns collecting a win.

Remember KC's are a business. If "other" guys are contributing 25-50% of the revenue from hunts, do you really think any KC is going to do anything to turn them away? Heck no. Can you blame them? Not really. Its sad to say but if most people have a choice between being honest and being able to pay their bills, they will choose to pay their bills. KC's are no different.

If your cast is made up of these "other guy" kind of guys, you are NOT out in the woods to determine the best coondog. You are not coonhunting. You are having a Who-Can-Cheat-Em-the-Most contest. If you are a real coonhunter you will soon be asking yourself why you are doing this?

For those that think Nonhunting judges are the answer, just pick a cast at your next hunt and assign a nonhunting judge and report here how it goes. I've seen a club do that and never seen so much resistance from a cast to have an impartial judge. You don't get in the middle of their schemes without some backlash.

I mostly think you can stick a fork in comp. coonhunting. Its done. But maybe the sport just needs to adapt? Maybe there is something, someway for a dog to go out and show how well it can tree a coon without all the people oriented baggage?

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6868

Your right on John. The ones that whine and cry after getting beat will be back most likely if their dog lost it for them; They are making excuses for their dog. The ones that have a win taken by cheaters especially a new comer will think long and hard before coming back.

You folks that say get a better dog stop crying need to understand that this sport will not grow unless guys get a fair shake when they enter a hunt.

I find it ironic that most say get a better dog and learn the rules and yada yada yada....... Are usually the ones that will screw someone and call it being a handler. Winning for your dog when your dog didn't do the work.

I haven't had a bad cast in UKC for quite some time I'm thankful for that.

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Registered: Nov 2013
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Lol, this thread sure Is getting a lot of attention. I made this post just for the sake of discussion. Not to discredit anyone or their hounds. If you reply respectfully instead of bashing each other maybe something good can come out of it !

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: berkeley springs w va
Posts: 448

personally i will never stop compitition coon hunting becuz i love the sport.. yes there is alot of cheatng for a title but i have been on alot of casts were i had a blast.. i meet new people some good some bad... thats just the way it goes... ive won alot of casts buy just having a dog that stayed out of trouble.. ive also lost alot of casts due to either me opening my mouth before dog was settled or by waiting to long or just cuz my dog wanted to b a dog an not perform.. an yes ive lost some by being screwed.. but u take good with bad an move on... if u love walking behind the dog your hunting you will always go back to the hunts.. thats what keeps the clubs going..

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Pamplin Va.
Posts: 454

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
So,

Dean what do you do in a 4 dog cast when you have a whole coon plain as day and 2 of the other members go blind? Now keep in mind you spent time, gas, and money entering this hunt. What is your next move?

---

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location:
Posts: 246

quote:

---

Originally posted by dean jamerson
Most of the time when I get screwed it is because of what I have on the end of the lead or a poor decision I have made. Perhaps we should change to participation hunting instead of compitetion hunting. Lets just go hunt have fun give everybody a ribbon at the end of the night, and everybody goes home happy.

---

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location:
Posts: 246

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Your right on John. The ones that whine and cry after getting beat will be back most likely if their dog lost it for them; They are making excuses for their dog. The ones that have a win taken by cheaters especially a new comer will think long and hard before coming back.

You folks that say get a better dog stop crying need to understand that this sport will not grow unless guys get a fair shake when they enter a hunt.

I find it ironic that most say get a better dog and learn the rules and yada yada yada....... Are usually the ones that will screw someone and call it being a handler. Winning for your dog when your dog didn't do the work.

I haven't had a bad cast in UKC for quite some time I'm thankful for that.

---

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6868

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe~mcavoy
Trevor I hope your not referring to me being I'm probably the only one on here that you know

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Grand Nite Ch(4) PKC Silver CH Main Street Blue SS quarterfinalist 2018. Autumn Oaks Grand 16 2018. Senior Showdown semifinalists 2020. UKC top 25 World hunt 2020. PKC quarterfinalist 2020
Grand Nite Ch HOF PKC Silver Ch Heatseaker Unleash the Kraken(Grand at 15 months old) BBOA Overall 1st place X2, Tournament of Champions Finalist, National Bluetic Days overall winner, Autumn Oaks Grand 16x2 PKC SS Semi Finalist PKC State Hunt Final 4 UKC World Top 20
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