Registered: Sep 2003
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Posts: 2785

I just like to hear dogs run and tree coon without being quirky and a good race with several good mouthed dogs running hot and helping pick up losses and then see-saw on a tree is what I have in mind when I pick a pup and start the long process of training him ...

Any scenario you can think of can happen and be ok if the dogs are being honest .... variety is the spice of life , but a dishonest habit like being jealous or cutting opposite of where we cast just to get alone ... or gambling on trees when tracks get tough instead of once in a while .. etc , etc ..... it just aint interesting enough for me to be out there in the woods at night losing sleep ....


Every point system in place now and the one like Randy's is gonna punish a track dog and coondog ... it sounds like folks want cur dogs .... since when do we vote on things or let a card decide the best dog instead of our judgement .....

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Registered: Aug 2005
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Understood. I sent ua pm fri. Did u get it

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No , I don't see it ... but I cleared some old hate mail out ... it should go through if you try again .

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: il
Posts: 206

I'd vote for the countdown with 100 first tree or no countdown with 125 first tree ,but the125 and countdown puts too much in favor of the tree dog . We're losing tracking ability now with dogs making lots of blank trees this would just encourage it!

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Registered: Nov 2007
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Posts: 251

Blanks don't help in any KC...

Who cares if a dog is slick? As long as it's not mine..

Mine better be deep and lonely if he has not struck one red hot with the rest of the pack right after we cut them..

I'll take 2 by myself around here any day of the week versus packing with dogs all night.

Guess this is what makes the world go round though. Different strokes for different folks.

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Gene Raines
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Raines' RockyTop Kennels
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PKC Silver Champion $5000+ Won; (Never in a UKC hunt) GR CH 'PR' Raines' Trusty II AKA "Thunder" (Trusty X Ox Female(Callie))

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Y'all going Gene?

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Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Moncks Corner, South Carolina
Posts: 1814

Isn't the B&T Association UKC chartered? Too me, that says all that needs to be said. I sure don't see hundreds of B&T's at any of the events that offer a count down.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 242

Remember votes here don't count. If you go to Black and Tan Days, go to the membership meeting and vote.

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Pleasant Plain OHIO
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quote:

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Originally posted by K. Singletary
Isn't the B&T Association UKC chartered? Too me, that says all that needs to be said. I sure don't see hundreds of B&T's at any of the events that offer a count down.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: western central, IL
Posts: 1084

quote:

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Originally posted by K. Singletary
Isn't the B&T Association UKC chartered? Too me, that says all that needs to be said. I sure don't see hundreds of B&T's at any of the events that offer a count down.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Batavia,Iowa
Posts: 2623

I bet a lot of the people complaining about it won't even be in the running to make it to the hunt

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Location: Moncks Corner, South Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by rweller
Your right, but the ABTCHA was one of the only Breeds that Voted FOR the count down tree at the Rules proposal last year at AO. We voted for it because at the time there was a poll weather we wanted it or not. Guess what won. Vote went to go with COUNTDOWN tree. It was the other breeds that voted against it not us. We also voted for it the last time there was a rules proposal.
So I don't see what the big deal is on this countdown tree. It seems a few DON'T want it and they have made that the focus on this proposal instead of the real issue. Which is trying to promote the sectionals.
We can always change things if it doesn't work but we need to get something like this in place to hopefully bring back some life to the Sectionals. If we don't try something the sectionals will probably be gone in the next few years then you will really have something to complain about. JMO
Go to the meeting and vote YES and then we can move forward on this.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
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Whether a person thinks a countdown is a good rule or not is beside the point.

The point is this proposal should have had ONE goal. That is, to boost sectionals. They should have stayed FOCUSED on that. They did not do that, and this is where it has led us.

I am still surprised this proposal made it out of committee. The President or Chairman should have recognized this committee had no responsibility or authority to change or make nite hunt rule policy. He should have sent them back to the drawing board. Not the message board.

The good news is no harm done, its easy to fix and no reason for any hard feelings. I get distracted all the time. I'm supposed to be doing something else, right now. It happens.

jmo.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2848

quote:

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Originally posted by rweller
.
We can always change things if it doesn't work but we need to get something like this in place to hopefully bring back some life to the Sectionals. If we don't try something the sectionals will probably be gone in the next few years then you will really have something to complain about. JMO
Go to the meeting and vote YES and then we can move forward on this.

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: California, MO
Posts: 771

quote:

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Originally posted by K. Singletary
Well having dogs qualifying under one set of rules and then hunting under another set doesn't make much sense. How do you know different dogs wouldn't have qualified in the first place using a different set of rules? You are basically saying you don't like UKC rules so you are going to use a different set of rules to attempt to increase attendance in UKC events. LOL That's pretty funny.

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: West Tn.
Posts: 114

Don't get discouraged, you have done a great job!!! If the tree countdown causes this not to pass it had no hope in the first place. I think it should pass and hope it does. I truly believe if you were giving away cake and ice cream you would have problems with some of this bunch and their opinions!!!"JMO" Again good job jerrod, I hope your hard work pays off.

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Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:

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Originally posted by david white
Y'all going Gene?

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Would love to have Thunder up there, but already 2 people ahead of me had asked off for work. Puts me out. I'm off Thurs but can't get Fri. You all still going up tomorrow? Hope your feeling better and wish we could all make it!

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Gene Raines
931-319-0588
Raines' RockyTop Kennels
Home of:

PKC Silver Champion $5000+ Won; (Never in a UKC hunt) GR CH 'PR' Raines' Trusty II AKA "Thunder" (Trusty X Ox Female(Callie))

Gone But Never Forgotten: PKC Silver Champion($5444 won); UKC GR. Nt. Ch. 'PR' Raines' Rockytop Kansas TRUSTY (3 Generation All Grand)
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Location: Lockridge Iowa
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quote:

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Originally posted by Gene Raines
Would love to have Thunder up there, but already 2 people ahead of me had asked off for work. Puts me out. I'm off Thurs but can't get Fri. You all still going up tomorrow? Hope your feeling better and wish we could all make it!

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quote:

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Originally posted by jerrod leathers
Dogs can qualify for Purina Nationals under Open Registered rules, then they have to hunt Nationals under Championship rules. Two different sets of rules, one for qualifying and one for the Championship. Other KC's have similar hunts where one set of rules qualify you and another applies to the championship. It's not really a novel idea. Making any sense yet?

I can't speak for everyone involved with this idea, but I can give you my opinion when I wrote the proposal. What I'm saying is that the ABTCHA has voted twice to amend UKC rules to include a tree countdown, therefore the majority of membership that competition hunts must like this rule and want this rule in place. What I'm saying is that the set of rules we put in place for the Champions Classic may attract people who hunt other registries to show up with their B&T at Sectionals and major UKC events to qualify for this hunt. What I'm saying is that a tree countdown rewards the dog that trees the coon first and also trees the most coons. Which one of these ideas do you find the funniest?

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quote:

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Originally posted by K. Singletary
To my knowledge the membership has never voted on 125 first tree with a 30 second countdown, but if you say so, have it and good luck.

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Past home of Gr.Nt.Ch. Splitters Magic Otis 2014 Black and Tan Days King of Hunt. GRNITECH'PR' Roughton's Black Splitter X Gr.Nt.Ch. Black Magic Queen

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My understanding is the ABTCHA voted for the countdown the last 2 times the rules were changed. One of those times the ABTCHA was the only Assoc. which voted for it. "We" seem to be strongly in favor of a countdown, lol.

However, any poll I've seen, including this one, is almost even. There are currently about 3 old polls on the ABTHCA site and they are all within a couple votes, one way or another. IMO, the polls being that close only means the issue is very tight.

With this being such an evenly split issue, I wonder how the ABTCHA and OUR reps know how to vote when UKC asks? How do we know they are representing the majority of the membership?

This countdown is going to come up at every rules change. IMO, a vote needs to be taken from the membership and that's how the ABTCHA needs to vote.

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Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:

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Originally posted by rweller
I didn't say the general membership voted on it. There was a poll taken on the countdown tree last summer just like this poll. Your right it was not a membership vote because the ABTCHA did not take anything to the rules proposal table. It was brought to the table either by UKC or another breed. But we did vote YES for the countdown tree. One of the things we took into consideration was the poll that was on here last summer.
We did not get the rules proposal until after B & T Days so the members couldn't vote on it before we went to the rules meeting.

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Last edited by K. Singletary on 04-30-2014 at 07:05 PM

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
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Ralph and Jerrod, welcome to Coondog Politics.

I went through the same fires when I was working of the WHIF Program. There were Polls done, advice going in all directions , and I even got a couple of cussings over the phone.

In the end, I didn't get 3-4 things that I wanted in the WHIF Program and I had to compromise.

What you have to decide is this: Are the merged rules worth dying for ? If the answer is yes, then go for it.. It No , then go back in committee and re-do thing's before B&T days.

It's possible that it wont even be an issue and pass as is... But I also know that some of the guys at that general meeting are about as Old school as it gets and they are steeped in UKC tradition.... If just ONE of those old codgers stands up in the meeting and makes a pitch against what you have proposed , it will likely go down in flames. One of those old grey haired farts can easily swing 30 votes on the spot.

So, is it worth dying for? As I've said, I don't like the changing of the rules, but it would NOT keep me from voting for it anyway. I would go with UKC rules myself, but that's just my opinion..

The sectionals are wobbling like a wounded Duck and need resuscitated badly. I'm not sure the WHIF will fix the World Hunt issues, and I'm not sure this Program will fix sectionals , but the breed should not sit around with it's thumb in it's rear-end and do nothing.

Good luck and God's speed.

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ralf and jerrod thanks for all your hard work but it seems that kenny and some others like it just the way it is so that the me to dogs can come in right at the last minute and get second tree after they have went a quarter to get to the real coon dog.and yes kenny i hunt pkc and am proud of it

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cooner69

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The score card don't tell you who the real coondog is ... that's why making either track or tree lopsided is not necessary ... keep it level and let the real coondog prove it .

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