Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Little Britain, Pa
Posts: 451

quote:

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Originally posted by Sundown Beagles
Although I am not totally against timed lines, I will say having a time limit can cause alot of issues. EXAMPLES
1. IF you make it 1 or 2 minutes between lines - Some areas allow for good visual of the dogs and their hound work. Having a timed interval only creates a clock watching situation that promotes pure speed.
2. If you make it 3 to 7 minutes between lines - This will hurt several areas that are lucky to get a 7 minute run. (RR tracks, fence rows, etc).

One of the things I have always liked about the UKC HB format is that the rules are designed to simulate a hunting experience. As for the circle it was always explained that "if you were gun hunting, would you have shot the rabbit". Those that answered yes to a minute run were schooled on the difference between jump shooting and allowing dogs to circle.
In my opinion I have seen many hounds that have excelled in a "timed line" format and they excell in speed. Having speed without the ability to run the track does not promote a quality gun dog. I think we have a good set of rules that have weathered time. A lot of changes to the format occurred this year. Now we just need to educate everyone on those rules, which Allen is doing with the judging seminar at Nationals.
I say leave it alone for now.

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Registered: Feb 2010
Location: Red Lion, PA
Posts: 410

So say they made it 3 mins. Do you have to wait 3 mins to call a line or can you call the line and it has to be 3 mins before the dogs cross the line?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

quote:

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Originally posted by D.B.
gonna have to agree with Dave.... and ad If I wanted to run "timed lines" I'd run another format... Isn't there already another Kennel club that runs there format like that..

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: East OH
Posts: 938

I think that time should be used for the first line . Rabbits running a circle is dependent on many factors . After that first line is scored ,score when ever you see a line . Doing first line by time takes all the "was a full circle ran " out of the picture.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Navarre, Ohio
Posts: 647

The only time I can remember scoring half circles was a issue, was at the Nationals. This was because you needed such a high score to be in it. Now that the National is a eliminator hunt. I don't see much of a problem with circles.
My Hats off to the folks responsible for this change that others said can't be done. This is a huge improvement to the program! Keep up the good work. All the best

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Newark, Ohio
Posts: 1751

I don't see the need for timed lines.....good fair judges would be as much a resolution for "short circles" as anything.....What is a short circle ? a circle is circle is this not correct if a rabbit has made change in direction and come past the cast members is that not a circle ? what does it matter if it took 100 yards for this to happen or 50 ?

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 305

Time lines is a good idea I think that way everybody is on the same pattern. For some that is saying the dogs that are fast and over running the line some, when you have dogs wanting the front end they are going to do that. To me that is the reason hunting beagle is for speed and drive. I feel that is why Ukc made the performance pack for the dogs that are slower running line dogs. Not saying they can't win in both formats running performance pack and hunting beagle is two different style of dogs. This is my opinion. Calvin

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Coshocton,Ohio
Posts: 2613

This si something I found on a circle. A circle is a type of line. Imagine a straight line segment that is bent around until its ends join. Then arrange that loop until it is exactly circular - that is, all points along that line are the same distance from a center point. Todd I think PKC has times on scoring lines.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 305

Yes thornie is right pkc does have time limit on scoring dogs I have ran in it and I like the time limit on there Calvin

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Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 235

Rabbits run in all different directions, based on pressure, environment, size of land etc. Yes timed intervals on lines keeps everyone on the same page. With that said, Judging varies from club to club, from judge to judge. Elimination style events eliminates this problem. Some on here can argue what type of dog this will promote. Fast dogs can score quick lines, and slow dogs can do the same, its all depending on the running of the rabbit and the visual ability to see the rabbit. I don't really care what you do with the rule, don't really see it changing the style of hounds that we run in the current format. I myself just hate picking the dogs off a hot great running track after 3 lines. But that's the rules. JMO

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Registered: May 2012
Location: IA
Posts: 351

I dont agree that performance pack is for slow dogs I think its for cleaner dogs. Why is hound and hunter rules say dogs are to be warned and scratched for skirting and rough running when I have yet to ever see that called but I always here it said that thats what hound and hunter is for and pp is for clean running slow dogs? Speed isnt really good at all if you cant have the track with it. Its not racing

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Southeast Iowa
Posts: 73

theres a big differents between a fast hound and a fast track dog, I have seen it a lot that dog running second in another dogs hip pocket giving the dog on the front more than he can handle causing the dog that has to have front to over run and swing while the second place hound is making the turns only to have lead dog take the front for 50 yrd or feet and get a line and then over run again I will take that number 2 dog any day, I like a fast clean dog worried more about the rabbit than having the front. I have seen a 13" fast track dog give 15" more than they want from the 2nd or 3rd spot all day long.
I believe andy and some others have it right what good is speed if you can't control it and also to worried about having the front to use it.
Well back on topic I see where the time constraint on the first line to be benificial is if dogs are split up hunting and a dog strikes and before all dogs can hark in rabbit makes a 50' circle and dog gets score that is alot of points to overcome just from bad luck that your dog was the opposite direction looking for a bunny

Last edited by Big River S on 03-21-2014 at 10:43 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: East OH
Posts: 938

quote:

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Originally posted by BCBeagles
How about judges get in with the dogs and watch the dogs run and see what dogs working, not just the front end dog that reaches the most to score the "line"?

Unless you start adapting rules that help the dog actually is running the track and not just fighting to the front at all costs, your crowd will be the same and the dogs will fall into the same category.......just my thoughts....

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: IOWA
Posts: 155

Timed lines is a great idea. It will hold everyone to the same standard. This is most important in a champion cast were score really matters due to no winners pack. In a recent post some think a U is good enough so why not score C then. Timed lines would keep every cast on a lot more even playing field. Great idea Todd

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Registered: Apr 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 201

Albert, heard that before thank you.

Interesting discussion and good points on both sides.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: NE OHIO
Posts: 832

The best rules can be interpreted literally without needing to read between the lines or knowing what was meant when it was written. Also need to end the
was it a "U", "C", down and back; or even at the end of the spectrum, an asymmetrically perfect circle around 3 little tiny trees with one little bush in the middle.

I don't believe more line scoring opportunities would benefit a dog that is not accurate on its track. I feel strongly the result would most likely be an advantage to the accurate dog.

Don't want to see it become a situation of the cast running with the pack to score more points.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Markle,IN
Posts: 1570

quote:

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Originally posted by Brad 3
Timed lines is a great idea. It will hold everyone to the same standard. This is most important in a champion cast were score really matters due to no winners pack. In a recent post some think a U is good enough so why not score C then. Timed lines would keep every cast on a lot more even playing field. Great idea Todd

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Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Little Britain, Pa
Posts: 451

quote:

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Originally posted by Todd K / UKC
I didn't realize there was another format running timed lines? Which one?

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HBCH D.B.'s Yankee Tank
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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 588

IMO the first line of every track should be a circle before you can score. Timed 3 minutes for the next 2.
Allowing the opportunity to score on a small circle (baby rabbit for instance) is important for getting those strike points plussed. Also seeing to it that the first line is a circle will allow all the pack to strike in and run the majority of the track to be scored.
IMO this could work really well. It would also keep down argument on when the "line" clock starts. Example dog a strikes in cold trailing dog b strikes in 2 minutes later if line clock starts right Away you r able to score and rabbit isn't up yet. Dog jumps a rabbit finally and gets line??? The beauty of ukc hunting beagle has been the circle. Keep it but yet improve upon it.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Markle,IN
Posts: 1570

quote:

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Originally posted by Glomski
IMO the first line of every track should be a circle before you can score. Timed 3 minutes for the next 2.
Allowing the opportunity to score on a small circle (baby rabbit for instance) is important for getting those strike points plussed. Also seeing to it that the first line is a circle will allow all the pack to strike in and run the majority of the track to be scored.
IMO this could work really well. It would also keep down argument on when the "line" clock starts. Example dog a strikes in cold trailing dog b strikes in 2 minutes later if line clock starts right Away you r able to score and rabbit isn't up yet. Dog jumps a rabbit finally and gets line??? The beauty of ukc hunting beagle has been the circle. Keep it but yet improve upon it.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Newark, Ohio
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I like it...

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Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 235

Then we could have 3 stop watches. 1 for hunt clock. 1 for the hunt. 1 for timed intervals. Oh maybe 1 more to track of the time since our last rule change. Lol

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HBCH Riverbottom Lilly
Tuff Weedeater Dixie
Hunt-em-up Shooters Sally

Past Hounds:
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Registered: May 2012
Location: IA
Posts: 351

Ya its gettin tough to keep track of all times and still handle a dog

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: wi
Posts: 11

Great idea....the cream will still rise to the top. And to some that are against..look back in your bloodlines, full of

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Uniontown,Ohio
Posts: 141

quote:
Originally posted by Glomski
IMO the first line of every track should be a circle before you can score. Timed 3 minutes for the next 2.
Allowing the opportunity to score on a small circle (baby rabbit for instance) is important for getting those strike points plussed. Also seeing to it that the first line is a circle will allow all the pack to strike in and run the majority of the track to be scored.
IMO this could work really well. It would also keep down argument on when the "line" clock starts. Example dog a strikes in cold trailing dog b strikes in 2 minutes later if line clock starts right Away you r able to score and rabbit isn't up yet. Dog jumps a rabbit finally and gets line??? The beauty of ukc hunting beagle has been the circle. Keep it but yet improve upon it.

I agree 100%

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