Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

quote:

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Originally posted by Oak Ridge
I spent my high school career in FFA, on the school livestock judging team....and we had to "pick the best animal" and then justify our choices by giving the REASON that animal A placed above animal B.

Now I don't show dogs, but I do judge a fair amount of bench shows. I know that it is common for a UKC Bench show judge to simply pick a winner, and not offer one sentence that would justify that choice.

I think it is high time that judges step up to the microphone and explain to all of the "other judges" (those that are spectating) why they made the decision that they made. Now that doesn't mean that those decisions will always be "right"....but at least we would know what in the world was going on in their heads!

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If we're not suppose to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by Todd K / UKC
....If we required reasons at that level it would improve the quality of our judging dramatically in my opinion....and we would lose 2/3 of our judges.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
Posts: 5183

quote:

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Originally posted by Todd K / UKC


If we required reasons at that level it would improve the quality of our judging dramatically in my opinion....and we would lose 2/3 of our judges.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

This is the best idea I have read to date! Even with a three judge panel you don't know what they are actually thinking and why they made a choice. I show AKC almost every weekend and deal with the nepotism and politics that will never go away. This right here will separate that from the UKC and the win will be held in higher esteem IMHO. The judge will have to publically point out the reasoning behind his or her decision. It might be an uncomfortable position to be in as a judge but it will eliviate these types of threads. There won't be a question in anyones mind as to why the winner was indeed the winner. Very very refreshing and workable approach!! Less of a statue contest and more of judging breeding stock which is what it is supposed to be! You are looking and rightly picking apart the dams and sires of the future generation. They should be scrutinized and it should not be political or display nepotism. The AKC is riddled with this behavior and it is very discouraging. I know people wanting to switch to UKC but if they see the cutthroat politics they will disappear quickly.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

quote:

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Originally posted by blocksporthound
This is the best idea I have read to date! Even with a three judge panel you don't know what they are actually thinking and why they made a choice. I show AKC almost every weekend and deal with the nepotism and politics that will never go away. This right here will separate that from the UKC and the win will be held in higher esteem IMHO. The judge will have to publically point out the reasoning behind his or her decision. It might be an uncomfortable position to be in as a judge but it will eliviate these types of threads. There won't be a question in anyones mind as to why the winner was indeed the winner. Very very refreshing and workable approach!! Less of a statue contest and more of judging breeding stock which is what it is supposed to be! You are looking and rightly picking apart the dams and sires of the future generation. They should be scrutinized and it should not be political or display nepotism. The AKC is riddled with this behavior and it is very discouraging. I know people wanting to switch to UKC but if they see the cutthroat politics they will disappear quickly.

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If we're not suppose to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

quote:

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Originally posted by Buckshot
IMO, that statement right speaks volumes of what UKC's opinion of their BS Judges are.

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 698

You know what they call a basement full of bench showers






A wine cellar





Sorry I just could not resist

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

I WINE CELLAR is where they store the best they have: what U think now guru.
One mistake I think may be overlooked is this. Maybe we need two classes of bench shows one for the BIG TIME you know the B/4 then 0ne for the little club shows because I GARONTEE YOU there is no way to incorporate the FFA idea into ALL UKC bench show judging period.
Now while it is on my mind 2 things comes up 1- If anyone thinks AKC gives two hoots in a hollow about COON HOUNDS just open your eyes and by the way if you think this years winner was picked by the way it moved on the ground then I sure missed something you could not even see it's feet O well. 2- UKC is headed down the road that will do away with the benches open your eyes and look around to what is being catered to today meaning how many coon hunters did you see showing at A/O hard to make a man run around and look like a $%%^^&*& did U get a questionair? . In my opinion U K C would like nothing more than to run all shows along their conformation format you see MR Wayne can tell the direction coon hunting is going this day and time. If you are ever going to judge the BIG BENCH SHOWS then you will judge along a certin format. JOIN OR BE LEFT BEHIND. Save me a seat please. J M O H L meyer

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 511

I am partial to the FFA judging way. I have done one dog show this way boy did people get mad they do not seem to want to hear the faults of their dogs. Course being a vocational ag teacher i may not be very impartial.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: ORFORDVILLE, WI
Posts: 1159

The people on the sidelines that critique judge's decisions are often unable to see the most important part....the gait. What is seen on the bench is one thing, but how they move is very important. I have judged dogs that looked outstanding on the bench, but had major issues on the ground. I would be okay with UKC removing the bench from the shows.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

You see the big picture, But the front seat is already full. ALSO how would you advertise the event? sure can't call it a confotmation show or can you? Now that brings to my mind a question about movement on the ground. How would movement on the ground come into play with a 3 legged dog and by the way how would a dog be judged when a person showing the dog was on crutches let alone in a wheel chair as in A/O this year.
Jake Appel my question to you is simple Why don't you forger about the BENCH SHOWS and suport the U K C conformation shows you know they don't use benches there. And one other thing DO YOU REALY THINK THE LOCAL CLUBS WILL CONTINUE OFFERING SHOWS IF THE BENCHES ARE NO LONGER USED.?

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: hodgenville, ky
Posts: 858

Well, I never hesitate to tell entrants why their dog was not selected to be the class, breed or b o s winner if they ask me. As far as doing it without being asked, I never do that because I am generally more concerned with getting the paperwork finished so I can get my dog entered in the night hunt. As far as the show dog people and the "wine cellar" goes, I have seen just as much whining (if not more ) from hunters not wanting to take their minus when they deserve it. At least "most" of the bench show people will accept what you tell them is wrong with their dogs if you politely explain it to them (you may have to explain in detail to some of the more novice ones) , but over all the sportsmanship is generally better there. Probably because they are in front of a room full of people and don't want to look like an a##, but for whatever reason this is, as a BSJ I appreciate their restraint and overall politeness.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

quote:

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Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
You see the big picture, But the front seat is already full. ALSO how would you advertise the event? sure can't call it a confotmation show or can you? Now that brings to my mind a question about movement on the ground. How would movement on the ground come into play with a 3 legged dog and by the way how would a dog be judged when a person showing the dog was on crutches let alone in a wheel chair as in A/O this year.
Jake Appel my question to you is simple Why don't you forger about the BENCH SHOWS and suport the U K C conformation shows you know they don't use benches there. And one other thing DO YOU REALY THINK THE LOCAL CLUBS WILL CONTINUE OFFERING SHOWS IF THE BENCHES ARE NO LONGER USED.?

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:

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Originally posted by Todd K / UKC
Joe...I think about that all the time. Without a doubt what FFA is teaching and requiring in regards to reasons is right on track. Heck on college judging teams they are required to remember the reasons they placed a specific class the way they did a month ago! Every animal in the class!

If we required reasons at that level it would improve the quality of our judging dramatically in my opinion....and we would lose 2/3 of our judges.

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