Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

If the advisor were 1,000 pages it couldnt cover every possible situation that might arise in the woods. We have a set of rules, and we have the advisor to guide us in how to apply them. Sometimes a dog gets lucky and is awarded + points he doesnt deserve, an example would be a dog that has quit a track and traveled through the woods to cover another dog.and sometimes a dog gets a bad break and takes undeserved -, like when a coon bails and the dog leaves the tree. We score these situations the way we do because UKC. tells us we must eventhough its not always fair to the dog, and i think most of us agree thats alright as long as those rulings are evenly applied and consistent.
When advisor articles become inconsistent or contain a bunch of exceptions that contradict previous opinions they loose their value as a tool for judges and MOHs. alike to make a correct and consistant ruleing. Eventually we will need a new publication to tell us how to interpret the advisor.

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Last edited by john Duemmer on 07-04-2013 at 08:32 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3847

I read that too and was disappointed in the answer. What happened to the benefit of the doubt?
A good argument would be that the coon ran into the den followed by the possum. The dog then trailed and treed and the coon moved it's way out the top of the den into the tree top.
The dog only knows the coon went in that hole, not up the side of the tree.

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Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:

---

Originally posted by john Duemmer
If the advisor were 1,000 pages it couldnt cover every possible situation that might arise in the woods. We have a set of rules, and we have the advisor to guide us in how to apply them. Sometimes a dog gets lucky and is awarded + points he doesnt deserve, an example would be a dog that has quit a track and traveled through the woods to cover another dog.and sometimes a dog gets a bad break and takes undeserved -, like when a coon bails and the dog leaves the tree. We score these situations the way we do because UKC. tells us we must eventhough its not always fair to the dog, and i think most of us agree thats alright as long as those rulings are evenly applied and consistent.
When advisor articles become inconsistent or contain a bunch of exceptions that contradict previous opinions they loose their value as a tool for judges and MOHs. alike to make a correct and consistant ruleing. Eventually we will need a new publication to tell us how to interpret the advisor.

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Taylorsville, NC
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OK people, we are not stupid and most of us know if our dog is trying to get to something. Don't matter if only one dog can get its head in the hole, as long as the others are not actively trying to get to the off game. It is called common sense not just saying crap to argue. If your dog is in the wrong it is wrong.

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If no opossum is seen now are we gonna circle dog with head in the hole and plus the one up on the tree

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Registered: Sep 2004
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Like Jim, the Advisor column is the 1st I read each month. I must say, I was very disappointed with this months Advisor.

There really should be a retraction. This just muddied the waters rather than helping clear anything up.

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i do not care if there is 10 possum in the tree and (1) coon the dogs will get plused, that is the way it has always been , i do not see how they can come in right in the middel of the game and change rules.

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If you read the whole thing in this months column, he emphasizes that this one, very unique, probably never to be seen again, situation is the only instance where he says we should minus with a coon seen in the tree. All other instances should be judged as always in the past, plus points for the coon, ignore the possum.
But it seems like as others have said, it would have been better to accept that in that one instance, you are plussing a dog that most likely treed on a possum. You do that simply to maintain consistency in how we interpret the rule. .

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Registered: Sep 2003
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Now hold on. Ops.!!!!!!! said I was through with this one. Later

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i know it is possible to have both in the same tree but it doesnt happen that often, if it is my dog he will be minused/scratched cause 90 percent of the time a possum will not be that high up and will be the first seen. at that point i am done shining and scoring it accordingly. i watched a gentlman shine a tree the entire 10 minutes one night hoping to find a coon when the possum was 10 feet above his dog. this was a small tree with no questions. even though it is a competition i know my dog and i know the rules. i want my dog to win based off his performance not a loop hole in the rules.

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I normally don't post much on here but since we are what "Ifing" this! What if there is a coon above the possum that you may not be able to see? I say that you either give the dogs the benefit of the doubt or delete it. Nevertheless, I will argue with what the current rules are! I'm just saying, if we are talking about going by the rules, I will use the most current one; until UKC changes it because we all perceive things differently.

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COME ON GUYS;; SHOW ME WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO JUDGE A CAST BY AN ADVISOR BOOK INSTEAD OF THE RULES ON THE BACK OF THE SCORE CARD.

A RULES COMMITTEE MEETS ONCE A YEAR AND WHEN THE MEETING IS OVER A SET OF RULES HAVE BEEN FINALIZED FOR THE HUNTS UNTIL THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING.

UKC PUTS OUT AN ADVISOR TO MAKE 1000'S OF DOLLARS. IT REALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RULES; ITS THEIR OPINION OF COURSE; BUT THE PRIMARY REASON= MONEY=MONEY=MONEY.

MANSFORD CRAVER STARTED RULES CORNER AND DIFFERENT ONES FOLLOWED UNTIL UKC CAME UP WITH THE BRAINSTORM "lets put it in book form and sell it. W'll make tons of money" SO NOW THE ORIGINAL RULES CORNER IS THE ADVISOR AND IT SEEMS MOST COMPETITION HUNTERS THINK IT'S A BIBLE.

THE RULES ARE NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND; SOME JUST DON'T WANT TO GO BY THEM

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Location: Monticello, Georgia
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quote:

---

Originally posted by ed esposti
i know it is possible to have both in the same tree but it doesnt happen that often, if it is my dog he will be minused/scratched cause 90 percent of the time a possum will not be that high up and will be the first seen. at that point i am done shining and scoring it accordingly. i watched a gentlman shine a tree the entire 10 minutes one night hoping to find a coon when the possum was 10 feet above his dog. this was a small tree with no questions. even though it is a competition i know my dog and i know the rules. i want my dog to win based off his performance not a loop hole in the rules.

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Last edited by mike thomason on 07-06-2013 at 07:33 PM

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Location: Indiana
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My first thought is let's throw another little twist into this situation......

What "if" you have more than one dog on this tree? One has his head in the hole trying his best to pull the possum out of the hole, and another standing on the side of the tree blowing the top out at the coon that is in the tree.....

You gonna minus/scratch the one with his head in the hole and plus the one treeing on the outside?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oak Ridge
My first thought is let's throw another little twist into this situation......

What "if" you have more than one dog on this tree? One has his head in the hole trying his best to pull the possum out of the hole, and another standing on the side of the tree blowing the top out at the coon that is in the tree.....

You gonna minus/scratch the one with his head in the hole and plus the one treeing on the outside?

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Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Plott55
COME ON GUYS;; SHOW ME WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO JUDGE A CAST BY AN ADVISOR BOOK INSTEAD OF THE RULES ON THE BACK OF THE SCORE CARD.

A RULES COMMITTEE MEETS ONCE A YEAR AND WHEN THE MEETING IS OVER A SET OF RULES HAVE BEEN FINALIZED FOR THE HUNTS UNTIL THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING.

UKC PUTS OUT AN ADVISOR TO MAKE 1000'S OF DOLLARS. IT REALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RULES; ITS THEIR OPINION OF COURSE; BUT THE PRIMARY REASON= MONEY=MONEY=MONEY.

MANSFORD CRAVER STARTED RULES CORNER AND DIFFERENT ONES FOLLOWED UNTIL UKC CAME UP WITH THE BRAINSTORM "lets put it in book form and sell it. W'll make tons of money" SO NOW THE ORIGINAL RULES CORNER IS THE ADVISOR AND IT SEEMS MOST COMPETITION HUNTERS THINK IT'S A BIBLE.

THE RULES ARE NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND; SOME JUST DON'T WANT TO GO BY THEM

The Swamp Guide

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
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Looks like to me if the advisor was so all fired important. Ukc would furnish each and every club with one.. FREE!!

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Michael Ghorley

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so are they considered split treed ?

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Registered: Sep 2012
Location: Coldwater Mississippi
Posts: 566

quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Looks like to me if the advisor was so all fired important. Ukc would furnish each and every club with one.. FREE!!

---

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Shelbyville, IN
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quote:

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Originally posted by groworg1
so are they considered split treed ?

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quote:

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Originally posted by groworg1
so are they considered split treed ?

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quote:

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Originally posted by groworg1
so are they considered split treed ?

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: SE MN
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Oak Ridge
My first thought is let's throw another little twist into this situation......

What "if" you have more than one dog on this tree? One has his head in the hole trying his best to pull the possum out of the hole, and another standing on the side of the tree blowing the top out at the coon that is in the tree.....

You gonna minus/scratch the one with his head in the hole and plus the one treeing on the outside?

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by GA DAWG
Looks like to me if the advisor was so all fired important. Ukc would furnish each and every club with one.. FREE!!

---

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Registered: Jan 2009
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Posts: 448

so what are they gonna do if dog in hole has a coon an there is a possum sitting 20 ft in the air with the other 2 dogs treeing on tree.. u gona minus dogs treeing an plus dog in hole... u can only score one tree one time.... granted if im ever in this situation an my dog is in hole im gona withdraw vhis possum treeing butt an go home to fix problem. an if my dog aint im gona tell guy whos dog is in hole he needs to fix his problem.. we all wana win but we also want our COONDOG to do it honestly an not milk a rule to get a win when the dog in hole screwed up

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