UKC Forums UKC Website :: Hunting Ops :: All-Breed Sports :: Registration :: UKC Online Store
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Registration is free! Calendar Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Home  
UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0 UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > How would you score this
Pages (2): « 1 [2]   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
GA DAWG
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

I figure its common knowledge that the judge goes first. I've never told that any time before a cast. Should I tell em also you can't scratch a dog for only face barking?

__________________
Michael Ghorley

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-11-2013 11:44 PM
GA DAWG is offline Click Here to See the Profile for GA DAWG Click here to Send GA DAWG a Private Message Click Here to Email GA DAWG Find more posts by GA DAWG Add GA DAWG to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
nccoonhunter197
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Taylorsville, NC
Posts: 1320

Re: all answers are wrong

quote:
Originally posted by everett
this is an example of how out of wack hunters across the board are with the rules. here is the facts.

The Advisor, official interpretation of ukc nite hunt rules and policies.

judging, there are only 3 situations that a cast vote is called, the judge scores ALL others, those three are, scoring tree,s, (coon seen or not) calling time out,and returning to previously scored tree,s without declaring dogs treed. page 80 Rule chapter 10 3rd paragraph.

And yes a dog can be scratched for aggressive behavior if that behavior is interfering with another dog, or is determined by the judge only that the dog is attempting to fight.

running into the tree before the judge, should have been scratched, it is not the judges responsibility to teach you the rules, he does not have to tell you to not go in to a tree before him, it is your responsibility to know the rules when you enter, Does the judge have to tell you when to tree your dog? That rule is well known common knowledge, and if three handlers are running in to tree you can bet they knew better. They are scratched, the Master of hounds needs to get him The Advisor book and study it...Gerald/ MH/BSJ



You are correct on the vote unless a cast member asks for a cast vote on a judges decision. I agree with Jim that the judge did not have control of the cast and they had probably gotten into every tree that night before the judge. I always make it clear if I am judging that I will always be first into every tree. Yes, a dog can be scratched for face barking if it meets both aggressive behavior and interfering with another dog (judges decision if it meets both). The MOH siding with the majority is nothing new to this sport. He is not there and has make a decision based on what he hears. The judge must keep control of the cast and once he lets a little thing slide he has to let the next one and so on. You don't have to be a butt to judge a cast but before a dog is ever cut the judge should inform the cast that the rules will be followed by all.

__________________
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." -
-- Theodore Roosevelt



Brian Teague 252-649-3050

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-11-2013 11:52 PM
nccoonhunter197 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for nccoonhunter197 Click here to Send nccoonhunter197 a Private Message Click Here to Email nccoonhunter197 Find more posts by nccoonhunter197 Add nccoonhunter197 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
everett
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Ar.
Posts: 2471

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
You can't scratch a dog for face barking period!
you sure can, that is aggressive behavior, and if it appears to be interfering with another dog you can scratch him....Gerald

__________________
Gerald Everett/ Mad Dog South Central
[870] 820-4065
B.O.S.S. Vice President
Blueticks of the Southern States

TEAM MAD DOG "Hunt Hard Hunt Offten"
IN REMEMBRANCE OF MAD DOG TIM VAUGHN

GRNITECH pr' MAD DOG ANTi UP JOKER co winner of the all blue world championship, Sire of 2014 UKC world hunt high scoring Bluetick male(Grnitech pr' Walz Coontree Joker)

GRNITECH pr' Mad Dog coon Poppin
Wacko (Shellly) 2014 BBOA Arkansas State Hunt Queen of Hunt High scoring Grntch.
2015 zone 7 championship Queen of hunt

Grnitech Grch pr' Mad Dog Hey Jude 2008 National Bluetick Days Queen of hunt, 2013 ACHA Little world hunt 5th place overall.

pr' Mad Dog Two Gun Rhino (Astro x Jude)

Pr' Mad Dog Two Gun Doll Baby ( Astro x Shelly)
Critter Light co. Owner/Dealer

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 05:01 AM
everett is offline Click Here to See the Profile for everett Click here to Send everett a Private Message Click Here to Email everett Find more posts by everett Add everett to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Cornbelt
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2007
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 311

The judge may not have been in control of the cast but if I was the MOH he would have still been on the cast. I would have told the members of the cast that it was nice of them to vote but the election was over. I would have reminded them about item 7 on the MOH checklist that I read before we handed out the cards. In particular the part about questioning something immediately when it happens. Any question after that time and there is no question to vote on. IMO before a MOH hears a question he should be sure it was properly questioned. And a good judge should know this as well and be able to flip the card over show them rule 18 and keep hunting. If it had been questioned properly then I would have asked each member if they saw aggression that was interfering with the other dogs ability to tree. I would also be real curious as to why the guy that didn't see anything was casting a vote to scratch? I know you have to vote but if you didn't see anything wouldn't that be how you would vote? After gathering that info I would decide if it was best to go with the cast vote or overturn the cast vote.

__________________
Kyle Hough

Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
ISCHA on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IowaStateCoonHunters

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 08:56 AM
Cornbelt is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Cornbelt Click here to Send Cornbelt a Private Message Click Here to Email Cornbelt Visit Cornbelt's homepage! Find more posts by Cornbelt Add Cornbelt to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
I would also be real curious as to why the guy that didn't see anything was casting a vote to scratch? I know you have to vote but if you didn't see anything wouldn't that be how you would vote? After gathering that info I would decide if it was best to go with the cast vote or overturn the cast vote.


You can't vote "I didn't see anything", you vote for or against the scratch. That is required. How do you vote when you didn't see it happen? The same way YOU as MOH decide the issue when YOU didn't see anything either.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 02:20 PM
JiM is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JiM Click here to Send JiM a Private Message Click Here to Email JiM Find more posts by JiM Add JiM to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Ky Show Girl
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You can't vote "I didn't see anything", you vote for or against the scratch. That is required. How do you vote when you didn't see it happen? The same way YOU as MOH decide the issue when YOU didn't see anything either.


i dont undestand if you tell the truth.1 didnt see anything 1 you
know voted no so how did it go back to the club at 2-2.

Last edited by Ky Show Girl on 05-12-2013 at 02:52 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 02:31 PM
Ky Show Girl is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Ky Show Girl Click here to Send Ky Show Girl a Private Message Find more posts by Ky Show Girl Add Ky Show Girl to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Cornbelt
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2007
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 311

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You can't vote "I didn't see anything", you vote for or against the scratch. That is required. How do you vote when you didn't see it happen? The same way YOU as MOH decide the issue when YOU didn't see anything either.


I realize you have to vote yes or no. But if you did not see the aggressive behavior causing interference why would you vote yes to scratch? How would that be different than saying you don't see a coon but voting to plus the tree? The guy can vote however he wants. But if I'm the MOH and his vote is part of a question I'm hearing I'm going to want to each member voting to scratch a dog to give me the logic behind the vote they cast. I would think if a guy didn't see anything he would vote no to scratch... because he had no reason to vote yes.
Even if the guy is a poor judge should he be punished for that by allowing the others in the cast to not have to follow the rules unless the judge makes them? I've been on plenty of casts were the judge had no business judging. But the rules on the back of the card are for everyone. That is why IMO the question should have been not heard by the MOH in this situation.

__________________
Kyle Hough

Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
ISCHA on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IowaStateCoonHunters

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 03:40 PM
Cornbelt is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Cornbelt Click here to Send Cornbelt a Private Message Click Here to Email Cornbelt Visit Cornbelt's homepage! Find more posts by Cornbelt Add Cornbelt to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

But if you did not see the aggressive behavior causing interference why would you vote yes to scratch?

Because you believe the guy that said he saw it and you don't believe the guy who says he didn't.

How would that be different than saying you don't see a coon but voting to plus the tree?

It is different because the rules say you need to see a coon to vote plus but there is no requirement to see a fight before you can vote to scratch. In fact, UKC has specifically stated several times on here and in the Advisor that you can scratch for fighting without seeing the fight. So there is a big difference.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 03:51 PM
JiM is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JiM Click here to Send JiM a Private Message Click Here to Email JiM Find more posts by JiM Add JiM to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Ky Show Girl
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

Thanks, Jim

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 04:25 PM
Ky Show Girl is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Ky Show Girl Click here to Send Ky Show Girl a Private Message Find more posts by Ky Show Girl Add Ky Show Girl to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jeff thomley
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2010
Location: searcy,ar
Posts: 738

MOH told me yesterday that the 2 that saw this said he never touched another dog , he just was blowing at 1 dog when they ran in there and they didn't like it . I have been breeding him some here lately and I agree that he has changed on me in the woods , I know he has been in over 100 hunts and I have seen dogs face bark him bump him and even had him ran off a few trees never seen those dogs scratched he and I just took it and went on . Now he is starched for fighting bc 2 out 4 said he barked at there dog . Everything that went on was done wrong , and should have bn thrown out . He want be back to another ukc hunt any way just wish this wouldn't have happen

__________________
jeff thomley

Csg Pkc ch grch grnite coopers stormin Ike
2017 top 10 reproducer, top 5 per sire
2016 top 10 reproducer,top 5 perf sire

2015 perf sire- top 10 reproducers list, top 5 perf pt sire-#1 akc b&t show dog of yr- sire of queen of show at b&t days this year
Grch grnite thomleys big boy
2014 - 1st place reg -ark at hunt, 2014 King of show b&t sect- gill, 2015 King of show b&t sect- plainview, 2015 winter classic best in breed dual ch, 2015 King of show and King of hunt - b&t sect gill
4th place all black hunt -2016 b&t days

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 04:34 PM
jeff thomley is offline Click Here to See the Profile for jeff thomley Click here to Send jeff thomley a Private Message Click Here to Email jeff thomley Find more posts by jeff thomley Add jeff thomley to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:
Originally posted by jeff thomley
MOH told me yesterday that the 2 that saw this said he never touched another dog , he just was blowing at 1 dog when they ran in there and they didn't like it . I have been breeding him some here lately and I agree that he has changed on me in the woods , I know he has been in over 100 hunts and I have seen dogs face bark him bump him and even had him ran off a few trees never seen those dogs scratched he and I just took it and went on . Now he is starched for fighting bc 2 out 4 said he barked at there dog . Everything that went on was done wrong , and should have bn thrown out . He want be back to another ukc hunt any way just wish this wouldn't have happen



The comments I made on this thread were in response to the questions of procedure. I wasn't there, have no idea what did or didn't happen and as such, I'm not about to try and say if someone got screwed or not.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 04:42 PM
JiM is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JiM Click here to Send JiM a Private Message Click Here to Email JiM Find more posts by JiM Add JiM to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

I wasn't there either but its easy to see a bad display of sportsmanship by 3 members of the cast.shame on them.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 06:10 PM
pamjohnson is offline Click Here to See the Profile for pamjohnson Click here to Send pamjohnson a Private Message Click Here to Email pamjohnson Find more posts by pamjohnson Add pamjohnson to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Cornbelt
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2007
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 311

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
The comments I made on this thread were in response to the questions of procedure. I wasn't there, have no idea what did or didn't happen and as such, I'm not about to try and say if someone got screwed or not.


Well according to procedure the question should not have been heard.

Although you give a good explanation Jim I would still ask the handler why he voted to scratch. If he didn't see it his vote would carry little weight with my decision.

__________________
Kyle Hough

Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
ISCHA on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IowaStateCoonHunters

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-12-2013 07:18 PM
Cornbelt is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Cornbelt Click here to Send Cornbelt a Private Message Click Here to Email Cornbelt Visit Cornbelt's homepage! Find more posts by Cornbelt Add Cornbelt to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
joey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

The question should of never been heard by the MOH. I have hunted with this dog on 5 cast. He has been in a bunch of hunts with no problems. I would not worry about it Jeff he want get another one. Just roll with it.

__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-13-2013 01:51 AM
joey is offline Click Here to See the Profile for joey Click here to Send joey a Private Message Find more posts by joey Add joey to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dan Dawg
Banned

Registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Posts: 47

Sounds Like A Sorry Moh He Should Scratch The 3 Cast Members And Send The Other Dog Back Out Hunting

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-13-2013 01:56 AM
Dan Dawg is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Dawg Click here to Send Dan Dawg a Private Message Find more posts by Dan Dawg Add Dan Dawg to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
H DOG
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 341

MOH Needs His License Revoked

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-13-2013 04:03 AM
H DOG is offline Click Here to See the Profile for H DOG Click here to Send H DOG a Private Message Find more posts by H DOG Add H DOG to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
charleyt
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2011
Location: Ky
Posts: 28

Rules are on the back of the score card,(or used to be).

__________________
Charley Tipton
Color don't tree
no coons.........
But it don't hurt em
to be ticked up a little bit

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-13-2013 08:24 AM
charleyt is offline Click Here to See the Profile for charleyt Click here to Send charleyt a Private Message Click Here to Email charleyt Find more posts by charleyt Add charleyt to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Diggerman
Banned

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: S.W. Wisc.
Posts: 734

quote:
Originally posted by everett
you sure can, that is aggressive behavior, and if it appears to be interfering with another dog you can scratch him....Gerald
UNLESS it's the judges dog, then he gets a free pass.

__________________
All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific. I carry a gun because I am too young to die and too old to take an asswhoopin.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-13-2013 12:55 PM
Diggerman is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Diggerman Click here to Send Diggerman a Private Message Click Here to Email Diggerman Find more posts by Diggerman Add Diggerman to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
gunslinger266
Banned

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Ward, Arkansas
Posts: 300

quote:
Originally posted by Diggerman
UNLESS it's the judges dog, then he gets a free pass.


It was the judges dog...

Sounds like the judge just let them buffalo him, I have drawn out with this dog a couple of times too and never had a problem.

__________________
Half the lies they tell about me aint
true

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-14-2013 02:30 AM
gunslinger266 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for gunslinger266 Click here to Send gunslinger266 a Private Message Click Here to Email gunslinger266 Find more posts by gunslinger266 Add gunslinger266 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Diggerman
Banned

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: S.W. Wisc.
Posts: 734

quote:
Originally posted by gunslinger266
It was the judges dog...

Sounds like the judge just let them buffalo him, I have drawn out with this dog a couple of times too and never had a problem.

You didn't have a judge,you had a score keeper,probly messed that up too.

__________________
All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific. I carry a gun because I am too young to die and too old to take an asswhoopin.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-14-2013 01:36 PM
Diggerman is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Diggerman Click here to Send Diggerman a Private Message Click Here to Email Diggerman Find more posts by Diggerman Add Diggerman to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 08:01 PM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): « 1 [2]   Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread


Forum Jump:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
< Contact Us - United Kennel Club >

Copyright 2003-2020, United Kennel Club
Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.3.0
(vBulletin courtesy Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.)