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Hoosier Outlaw
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4280

Guys I really appreciate all the responses....well most of them anyway.
I will make another thread later this evening to talk more about repeat crosses. Some of what I have said about them is being misunderstood or miss interpreted and really should be talked about in detail on a separate thread.
Sure would like to see more examples of supercrosses from the past posted on here.

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

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02-28-2013 06:35 PM

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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

All joking aside...
Bomber X Bell produced 2 Gr Nt Ch's and 3 Nt Ch's
Rat X Raven produced 4 Gr Nt Ch's and 7 Nt Ch's
Rabble X Pigeon produced 4 Gr Nt Ch's and 2 Nt Ch's

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02-28-2013 06:49 PM

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Pastor Mike
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Radford, Virginia
Posts: 2748

Rabble/Pigeon

Actually Rabble and Pigeon produced 2 GRNTS and 1 NTCH. One pups got run over with 2 first place wins. One made a great dog but was in the hands of a pleasure hunter who chose to never put him in a hunt. We still have locket and she has the goods to finish, we just always ended up hunting a pup over her, probably a mistake on our part but it happens.

Pigeon also produced 2 GRNTS and 1 NTCH from Razor.

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Soggy Bottom Redbones

GRNTCH GRCH 'PR' Soggy Bottom The Frog Dawg (current reproducers list)
NTCH CH Soggy Bottom The Bull Dawg
Soggy Bottom T-Top Miss Dottie
RIP
GRNTCH GRCH Soggy Bottom T-Top Haze HTX (Former#1 Reproducer)
CH Soggy Bottom T-Top Stella
GRNTCH GRCH Soggy Bottom T-Top Shadow
NTCH CH Soggy Bottom Bomber's Red Wire (Pigeon- former #1 Reproducer)
NTCH GRCH Red Cedar T-Top Lexus
CH Soggy Bottom T-Top Locket

Mike Laster
540-392-2441
pastorlaster@aol.com

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02-28-2013 06:58 PM

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Sawblade
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1589

Excellent

Richard ,that is an excellent example of this method. I know you have to have faith when doing the cross that it will also turn out to be as good as the cross that came before. When it does there really is nothing we could call it but supercross.

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Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

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02-28-2013 07:04 PM

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RED REBELS
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Medford, WI
Posts: 3312

I hope to get back to the red dogs soon, you'll be the first to know Shane!

haters gonna hate bud

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He who stirs the pot, deserves to lick the spoon.

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02-28-2013 08:24 PM

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Hoosier Outlaw
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4280

Two of my all time favorite females who I think produced some super good crosses were Moonlight Kate and Outlaw Jessie. They were bred to different males and produced nt.ch.'s and Gr.Nt.Ch.'s out of every one of those crosses.
Two more females who I think will go down as all time great reproducers are Pepper Ann and Nighty Nite Amber. They have already produced multiple nt.ch.'s and Gr.nt.ch.'s from crosses on different males and I am sure many more will follow in time. I also like that amber is out of ann, who is out of kate, who was out of dogs that went back to Jessie. To me that is proof positive that this line of redbones is making progress generation after generation and isn't that what we are all looking for?
I know there are other lines out there getting results as well so lets hear about some other supercrosses

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02-28-2013 09:01 PM

oklared
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

IF I MADE A CROSS AND GOT JUST ONE "GET A HEAD LIL RED" I WOULD CONCIDER THAT A SUPER CROSS. JMO

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HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

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03-01-2013 03:10 AM

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Hoosier Outlaw
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4280

From my experience....freakishly great dogs like little red are almost always one hit wonders that can't be reliably repeated. However I do think at least one of her littermates did make a pretty nice hound. She is a nt.ch. with 3 wins and won some money last year in $kc....I think they call her cracker. I know that Bellar has not been able to find another like little red....and its not from lack of money or searching
There is also another good point here in this story....when Bellar had the opportunity to repeat the same cross that little red came from...he did not do it...and bred her mother to a different male.....he doesn't believe in proven repeat crosses either....hmmm

Last edited by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-01-2013 at 03:27 AM

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03-01-2013 03:24 AM

l p w
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2008
Location: thomas springs tn
Posts: 404

good stuff guys

I don't do much breeding my dad does all the pup raising I just like to hunt but he has made repeat crosses several times and we have got coondogs out of all of them. Wouldn't that be one example of a super cross when you breed two dogs together multiple times and you get the same results coondog .s . I don't know aand not trying to be smart or go against anybody I am a hunter not a breeder

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lpw home of Grand nite ch Greenwood s Red River Dan Up and coming Wilsons Red Icy Hot Aka" Neighbor"

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03-01-2013 10:00 AM

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oklared
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

THE LITTLE RED THING HAS BEEN ON HERE BEFORE AND THEY CALL IT HYBRED VIGOR AND HAS BEEN DONE ALOT. I DO KNOW ABOUT CRACKER- NICE HOUND IVE HEARD. I TO WOULD HAVE TRIED THE WALKER DOG ONCE MORE BUT MR. BELLAR CERTIANLY KNOWS MORE THAN I AND IM SURE YOUR RIGHT HE JUST DIDNT THINK IT WOULD HAPPEN AGAIN. I DO THINK THERE WAS MORE TO HE'S BREEDING CHOICE THAN SIMPLY FIGUERING IT WOULDNT WORK AGAIN. YOU ARE UP THERE IN HIS AREA SO FIND OUT, INTERVIEW HIM I THINK IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW.

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03-01-2013 12:38 PM

jdgher
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1701

Repeat crosses

Just off the top of my head. Repeat crosses that worked. Each cross was repeated, each had some culls, each had coondogs.
Yellow River Rocky to Maggie
Twister to Music
Huey to Reckon

More recently a cross I am familiar with.
Steve-O to Chili
This cross is working over and over too.

I too have heard experianced breeders talk about repeat
crosses not working. I believe they had the experiance telling
them to believe that. Sometimes it must happen, sometimes not.
So far though, my experiance tells me that chasing after those proven crosses is time well spent.

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

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03-01-2013 03:44 PM

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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Darrin, do y'all know the #'s on the Steve-O X Chilli crosses and the Huey X Reckon crosses?

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03-01-2013 04:04 PM

Sawblade
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1589

add this

Richard and Darrin lets add this in and it starts to make sense.

Rocky/Maggie= Music
Music/Twister=Huey
Huey/Reckon= 4NC
Fiddle/Doc....= Reckon
Sage/Feather=Fiddle

Huey/Reckon cross is a third generation supercross top and bottom.

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03-01-2013 04:54 PM

Hoosier Outlaw
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4280

Re: Repeat crosses

quote:
Originally posted by jdgher
Just off the top of my head. Repeat crosses that worked. Each cross was repeated, each had some culls, each had coondogs.
Yellow River Rocky to Maggie
Twister to Music
Huey to Reckon

More recently a cross I am familiar with.
Steve-O to Chili
This cross is working over and over too.

I too have heard experianced breeders talk about repeat
crosses not working. I believe they had the experiance telling
them to believe that. Sometimes it must happen, sometimes not.
So far though, my experiance tells me that chasing after those proven crosses is time well spent.

Darrin....can you please post the numbers of the titled dogs from these 1st time crosses with the numbers of titled dog for the repeat crosses?
There is another thread on repeat crosses and that would be good info....if one of these crosses has produced equal to or a greater number of titled dogs from a repeat cross it would be the very first time I have seen it... and I would love to find a repeat cross like that after studying over a hundred and not finding a single case where that has happened....thanks, shane

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03-01-2013 06:09 PM

Sawblade
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1589

best cross

One of the best crosses I ever made was the Doc/Fiddle cross. It was super for a couple of reasons. First it produced 4 titled dogs but more importantly it produced reproducers.here are a few numbers I know of there may be some I'm unaware of.

Doc/Fiddle pups and what they have reproduced.

Bone.2GN 3NC ,2 more with 1st place wins 34pups total
Reckon 5NC
Fiddle II 5NC 1more with 1st
Mandolin 1GN 1NC ? not sure
June Bug 1NC
If anyone know of more let me know.

Last edited by Sawblade on 03-01-2013 at 11:19 PM

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03-01-2013 09:01 PM

Hoosier Outlaw
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4280

Re: best cross

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
One of the best crosses I ever made was the Doc/Fiddle cross. It was super for a couple of reasons. First it produced 4 titled dogs but more importantly it produced reproducers.here are a few numbers I know of there may be some I'm unaware of.

Doc/Fiddle pups and what they have reproduced.

Bone.2GN 3NC ,2 more with 1st place wins 34pups total
Reckon 5NC
Fiddle II 5NC 1more with 1st
Mandolin 2NC ? not sure
June Bug 1NC
If anyone know of more let me know.

See, now that means something. I love to see great reproducers in a pedigree directly behind other great reproducers. Lets you know you are doing something right

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03-01-2013 09:33 PM

riproarinkennel
Banned

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: south carolina
Posts: 2635

Re: best cross

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade

If anyone know of more let me know.

MANDOLIN PRODUCED A GRNT ALSO.

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03-01-2013 11:00 PM

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jdgher
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1701

Re: Re: Repeat crosses

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
Darrin....can you please post the numbers of the titled dogs from these 1st time crosses with the numbers of titled dog for the repeat crosses?
There is another thread on repeat crosses and that would be good info....if one of these crosses has produced equal to or a greater number of titled dogs from a repeat cross it would be the very first time I have seen it... and I would love to find a repeat cross like that after studying over a hundred and not finding a single case where that has happened....thanks, shane

Shane,
When I have time to make some phone calls and do some research I'll get the info. I just know out of the crosses I listed, not all the NTCh's were from the first cross.

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03-02-2013 02:53 AM

Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Maybe instead of All Grand pedigrees we should be working towards All Supercross pedigrees.

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03-02-2013 04:41 PM

Sawblade
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1589

Richard

I like that idea, it does seem like some have already been doing it even if they didn't know it.

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03-02-2013 06:00 PM

Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Re: Richard

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
it does seem like some have already been doing it even if they didn't know it.

I think they call that "selection", breed the best of the best to the best of the best.

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03-02-2013 06:32 PM

Hoosier Outlaw
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4280

Re: Supercross breeding

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
Supercross Breeding is a term that for the most part myself and Ryan Briggs use to describe one way to build a pedigree. I have heard many times people say a certain cross was a supercross. But that is not what we are talking about. Over the years certain crosses have produced a higher number of titled dogs than the average cross. When you research these crosses you sometimes find that this cross produced the highest number of titled dog for both the male and the female. That makes it a super cross. example. Yellow River Rocky was bred to many females yet when bred to Maggie that cross produced 5 GrNiteCh. No other cross on Rocky even comes close and Maggie also produced to best on Rocky . This was a "Supercross" what they really define is the one cross on any particular dog that produced the most titled offspring and many times these crosses represent the best the breed has seen. Building a ped based this cryteria is Supercross breeding. I can put one on paper and end up with a ped that for several generation shows some of the best proven crosses we have in the breed history.

Its a tool and I am convinced it works pretty good most the time.

I guess from this perspective...me and Danny made a Supercross On Rocky Top Jet x Moonlight Breanna

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