Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Pleasanton, Kansas
Posts: 1604

Another thing that UKC did was they passed out a paper to the hunting judges to answer about the use of the Garmin and or Alpha system being used during the hunt. They asked if it helped or hindered the hunt ect.

To me they asked the wrong ones. Ask the hunters not just the judges. A judge is not going to admit to mis- use. Allen said that night that the form would be available the next day to all of us. I never found it available.

I drove 5 hours to a hunt to be put in a test hunt. Boy that was fun!!!!! NOT!!!! Next time I will withdraw and go home. Doubt if I ever go back to the Battle again any way. Poor hunting area and no coon.

By the way my cast had no problems. We had a cast of good honest hunters and there was no need for the Garmin to be used.

Had family and buddies that it just didn't work out good for them.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Shelbyville, IN
Posts: 294

I don't see a problem with it. However I think you should only be able to track your dog not everyone elses. That way it is a matter of safety. If you think your dog is too close to a road you either withdraw and get him or you take your chances. I could see a problem if someone is tracking other peoples dog. Dogs moving, dogs split blah blah

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Mike Gibson

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1077

If it's strictly as a safety measure, I can see allowing a cast member to call for a vote on "powering up" for a pre-determined amount of time, during which no strike or tree call could be made.
Otherwise, if it ain't broke... Well, you know.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

This is an idea just chocked full of problems. It would be a total nightmare on a cast. First of all, this thing about not using them to make rulings...... if you believe that you are prolly too stupid to operate one in the first place. Dog A is showing treed but not barking so his handler holds off treeing him, dog B throws a locate but isn't showing treed on the Garmin, his handler trees him. You got a fight right there. " That's MY dog you treed. Your dog isn't showing treed"
Dog locates and is called treed while still showing running on the Garmin. "Your dog ain't treed!!!!!"
Dog is called treed shuts up, two is running, Garmin shows the dog moving away and coming back, locks it down. "Your dog is minused for leaving!!!!!" " No he ain't, you didn't see him leave, you never heard him bark away from the tree, the two never caught him"
These scenes are endless and anyone who has run a Garmin knows it.
What do you do when the Garmin shows a dog leaving the country and the other 3 are working a track within hearing? Call time to retrieve the lost dog? What do you do when one dog is headed for the interstate or rr tracks and the other 3 are setting up a tree?
Reading these posts, it is clear that a bunch of the coonhunters on here just aren't willing or wanting to turn loose in strange country without everything under their control but really, that is exactly what nite hunts are about. For you guys that want to keep that Garmin running so you know where your dog is, where it is headed, what is in front of it, etc, there is already a perfect solution. They are call Hunt Tests. Have at it.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

In a perfect world, there should only need to be one rule and that is, whatever that little screen shows is immaterial to any scoring situation. For honest hunters thats probably good enough but its easier said than done.

The problem is, most hunters in the hunts are from a little to alot crooked. They will try to use the Garmin when its to their advantage and if its not to their advantage, they will remind you it can't be used to score anything. lol.

IMO, if Garmins are allowed to be used at all then the next thing is they will want to use it to score situations and that opens another can of worms.

I'd like to see some use allowed but I'm not sure where to draw the line.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2159

But it sure would be nice to be able to see just where the dogs are treed so the guide to decide how the best way to get to them. The last hunt I was in this fall, right at the end of the hunt, the dogs treed. Because of the terrain, we couldn't decide if we could get to them faster by jumping in the pickups and driving down the road than busting bad brush for a mile. Fortunately, we made the right choice and drove around and they were a couple hundred yards off the road. But on the other hand, I can see a lot of ways to abuse the honor system.

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 140

Please do not allow garmins to be used during a hunt Please! There will be nothing but problems. We are supposed to be houndsmen and sportsmen not video gamers, and please dont do any more of the test runs at big events it leaves question to the integraty and wins of the hunts. If you want to test do it at a small local level first or on some mock UKC pleasure hunts get a few Reps from the UkC to go to the hunt and on the cast to see first hand the out come of there use, and go from there. This game is pretty simple Strike your dog when it Stikes, Tree him when he Trees, if he has a coon he is plused if he dont you minuse or circle. Pretty simple. I dont understand why we even have rules if we are all ways tying to munipulate them to try and get a win. We do not need garmins to hunt our dogs in COMPETION hunts ladies and gentlemen we need, a good dog, honesty, and good sportsmanship. If you are worried about the safety of the dogs that is why we have guides they know were the roads are, and know how to get back to the truck the rules say every one in a cast needs to stay togather. Thanks and have a good day.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mn
Posts: 513

quote:

---

Originally posted by jacobhills
Please do not allow garmins to be used during a hunt Please! There will be nothing but problems. We are supposed to be houndsmen and sportsmen not video gamers, and please dont do any more of the test runs at big events it leaves question to the integraty and wins of the hunts. If you want to test do it at a small local level first or on some mock UKC pleasure hunts get a few Reps from the UkC to go to the hunt and on the cast to see first hand the out come of there use, and go from there. This game is pretty simple Strike your dog when it Stikes, Tree him when he Trees, if he has a coon he is plused if he dont you minuse or circle. Pretty simple. I dont understand why we even have rules if we are all ways tying to munipulate them to try and get a win. We do not need garmins to hunt our dogs in COMPETION hunts ladies and gentlemen we need, a good dog, honesty, and good sportsmanship. If you are worried about the safety of the dogs that is why we have guides they know were the roads are, and know how to get back to the truck the rules say every one in a cast needs to stay togather. Thanks and have a good day.

---

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 67

quote:

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Originally posted by oklared
IF THEY ALLOW THEM THEN THEY SHOULD FURNISH THEM TO THOSE THAT DONT HAVE THEM.

---

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: maryland
Posts: 48

I sure did where's mine ...............

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: cincinnati, ohio
Posts: 745

I thought the same thing Duke......Where's my free Garmin.......Gimme Gimme Gimme.......

UKC...There is a UKC hunt at Hamilton, Ohio January 5th I believe. If you want another test run, I'm sure I can conjure up 3 other hunters for a mock trial run using the Garmins.

Justin

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: north central okla
Posts: 358

hell if we are going to be useing garmins at hunts we might as well allow cell phone use while we are at it to .i dont mind if they allow the useof garmins .but i dont think they should be on dureing hunt time .and i think whom ever is useing the garmin should have to give it to one of the orther cast members to carry.so they cant look at all the time .i know that sounds silly but i was on a3 dog cast where 2 dogs were wearing garmins and i was useing a tracker .i kept hearing a beep every now and then i say did you guys hear that beep they said no.also one collar had 2 red lights on it this dog was standing in the brush about 20 yards away .you cant see whos dog itis but judge looks at me and says let me know when you think your dog has quit that track.i said i will but thats not my dog and how about you doing the same.he never said anorther word about that again

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: north central okla
Posts: 358

by the way turkey ridge i would take a coon dog if they are suppily em .just kidding ehhehehehehehe

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

For the guys that say no.... I would like to hear your thinking on how a garmin could be used to cheat? its a handy tool for keeping track of direction and distance but beyond that anyone that thinks a hunter could call his dog based on his garmin is just not thinking. The dog still has to open to be struck or the judge will not accept the call. And still has to be heard barking stationary to be called treed so explain to me how a guy would have an advantage other than knowing where his dog is. If mine is about to cross a highway i have no problem withdrawing to save his life.

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Reelsville , Indiana
Posts: 1124

I say allow them to be used. The guys that have to know what their dog is doing every step of the way will have their nose buried in the screen and wont be paying attention to what the dog is doing. Shouldnt be hard to beat them I wouldn't think, by the time they make a few wrong calls.

I don't know but a couple people who have a Garmin that can put it in their pocket and leave it alone.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

My objection isn't that they would cause cheating, my objection is that would cause limitless amounts of argument and accusations of cheating. I gave multiple examples in my earlier post.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Menominee, Nebraska
Posts: 875

quote:

---

Originally posted by oklared
IF THEY ALLOW THEM THEN THEY SHOULD FURNISH THEM TO THOSE THAT DONT HAVE THEM.

---

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

Congrats ukc for at least having an open mind to at the very least try a few hunts with the garmin on to see what if any effect it has on the outcome of the winners of each cast. For those of you that are strictly against change, I say thank god you no longer require us to use carbide lamps, and binder twine to compete?

What I would now like to see from ukc, is what (if any) problems did occurs as a result of the use of this device. There seems to be a lot of nay Sayers on here making their case of the strong abuse of this device. Is there any justification to their accusation or is it all just a smoke screen to keep change from occurring?

I like the suggestion to try it at the local level first, and maybe then have the master of hounds submit a report back in the hunt package listing. Every problem/discussion that came up during zthe hunt time, and then evaluate the possible use of these devices at the larger hunts. I would like to see every club conduct one hunt using the device and provide a written summary to ukc listing all issues both negative and positive, that came up during that event, and then use that summary/report to evaluate possible further use of this device at future events in the coming year/years. WAY TO GO UKC!!!! THANKS AGAIN for at least considering the feasibility of using such a device

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: indiana
Posts: 242

UKC did good thinking outside the box.If you get beat by a Garmin OR A cell phone you need a better dog.


z

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Is there someone out there that is worried about getting beat by a Garmin or a cell phone for that matter? I haven't met them yet.

Zimmy, your comment above is what people do when they have no good answer for the REAL questions.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Shelbyville, IN
Posts: 294

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
My objection isn't that they would cause cheating, my objection is that would cause limitless amounts of argument and accusations of cheating. I gave multiple examples in my earlier post.

---

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
This is an idea just chocked full of problems. It would be a total nightmare on a cast. First of all, this thing about not using them to make rulings...... if you believe that you are prolly too stupid to operate one in the first place. Dog A is showing treed but not barking so his handler holds off treeing him, dog B throws a locate but isn't showing treed on the Garmin, his handler trees him. You got a fight right there. " That's MY dog you treed. Your dog isn't showing treed"
Dog locates and is called treed while still showing running on the Garmin. "Your dog ain't treed!!!!!"
Dog is called treed shuts up, two is running, Garmin shows the dog moving away and coming back, locks it down. "Your dog is minused for leaving!!!!!" " No he ain't, you didn't see him leave, you never heard him bark away from the tree, the two never caught him"
These scenes are endless and anyone who has run a Garmin knows it.
What do you do when the Garmin shows a dog leaving the country and the other 3 are working a track within hearing? Call time to retrieve the lost dog? What do you do when one dog is headed for the interstate or rr tracks and the other 3 are setting up a tree?
Reading these posts, it is clear that a bunch of the coonhunters on here just aren't willing or wanting to turn loose in strange country without everything under their control but really, that is exactly what nite hunts are about. For you guys that want to keep that Garmin running so you know where your dog is, where it is headed, what is in front of it, etc, there is already a perfect solution. They are call Hunt Tests. Have at it.

---

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

That sounds great on paper. In the real world it is a downright laughable response to the points I made.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: indiana
Posts: 242

Jim
It's not an answer,but a valid comment.I really think UKC done a good thing. 2 years ago my good female was hit in an RQE on hwy 6 we were turned loose 500 yd south of highway,We entered from the south on a lane ,not knowing the hwy was there if that garmin was there and on, we could question the guide about being to close to highway.And have option to leave our dog in truck or cut loose.
just because you are the Guru of all things hounds and UKC and pkc ,and I don't agree with you ,I also just MIGHT HAVE A VALID POINT.So lighten up on us peons.

Z

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

---

Originally posted by zimmy
Jim
It's not an answer,but a valid comment.I really think UKC done a good thing. 2 years ago my good female was hit in an RQE on hwy 6 we were turned loose 500 yd south of highway,We entered from the south on a lane ,not knowing the hwy was there if that garmin was there and on, we could question the guide about being to close to highway.And have option to leave our dog in truck or cut loose.
just because you are the Guru of all things hounds and UKC and pkc ,and I don't agree with you ,I also just MIGHT HAVE A VALID POINT.So lighten up on us peons.

Z

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