Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Well, what was posted about 1 cent may or may not be true. That doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if they are making a MILLION percent profitt.

It is not anybodys place to force someone to pay for something to benifit someone else. If they are making that money it's THEIR money, not YOUR money. They earned it.

Now if I owned the company and could afford it sure I would pay the insurance for them. But I don't, it's not my money to give away, and not yours either.

That would be no different than me demanding since you work at the Ice Cream plant you MUST buy ME two gallons of ice cream per week and you can't have any of it.

It's not my place to do that. If you WANT to buy me some ice cream that's between me and you, but for me to cry for someone to be forced to give it to me amounts to the same as stealing.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Southern Il.
Posts: 166

*****WAL - MART*****

*******SUCKS*******

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

Rip, why even bother talking to you about it all. You support President Bush. No need in even going any further. Your a hopeless case.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Southern Il.
Posts: 166

quote:

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Originally posted by sheepster
Rip, why even bother talking to you about it all. You support President Bush. No need in even going any further. Your a hopeless case.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Howard
What color is the kettle??????????? hmmmmm.

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In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

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Originally posted by sheepster
"MORE THAN THE JOB IS WORTH" ???????????????????? ok so, what your saying is then that its worth more than the cost of WALMART. WITHOUTH THOSE JOBS THERE WOULD BE NO WALMART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THOSE PEOPLE WORKING THERE BUTTS OFF IS WHY THERE IS A WALMART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THEY CANT EVEN GO TO THE DOCTOR WHEN THERE SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

As for me personally, I don't do much business with Wal Mart. It's not because of their pay to employees etc.

It's because I like smaller stores with less people where I can have a conversation with them and enjoy being there. I support the local owned businesses when I can for those reasons, and they are working their tail off to make it in life.

Is my not shopping at Wal Mart much gonna hurt them? No, but it might help my local friend out.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
Posts: 4837

Profit is the essense of a free market economy. It allows for those that are able to provide the best prices with the most success. Wal-Mart has achieved this at an unbelievable level.

I guarentee that Wal-Mart is not the only business of its kind that doesn't offer benefits to it employees. But like coondogs, nobody cares about you till your on top. Once your there, EVERYBODY knows that how you got there is wrong......

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Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
No I am not saying it's worth more than the cost of Wal Mart, I am saying it's not worth providing health insurance if the premiums are so expensive as to eat up all the increase in profit the worker can provide. That's what they are there for, to make a profit for the company and get paid for their labor in return.

If the stock boy allows Wal Mart to make 250 dollars a week from him and they pay him 225 a week they have made 25 bucks profit just that week from the employee and he made 225 dollars for himself. If the insurance premiums are 50 bucks a week they have went from making 25 dollars a week of each employee to LOSING 25 dollars a week BECAUSE of each employee. That can't last long, it's simple economics.

The employer is not the parent of the worker. They strike a business deal about how much they will work for/pay and benifits. If they aren't good enough move on to something else or re work the deal. If you got paid what you agreed on then the company held up their end of the deal.

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In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Sheep, what you are saying is true, the worker IS the backbone of any company. They couldn't function without it.

Without a company who would the worker work for?

It's a mutual agreement. The worker needs the company, the company needs the worker. The workers job is to make a profit for the company and be a good employee.

The companys job is to provide a good product to the customer and pay what it agreed to pay it's employees.

That's it, they are not the employees momma and they are not supposed to "take care of them". They are not supposed to give them a job for life, or a raise just because the employee wants one. They get a raise if they EARN it. They pay them for a days work and as long as they pay them what they agreed to then the company has held up it's end of the bargan.

The employee is free to leave any time he/she can find a better job.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
Posts: 4837

quote:

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Originally posted by sheepster
The workers are the BACKBONE AND HEARTBEAT OF THE COMPANY. WITHOUT THEM THERE IS ABSOLUTY NO PROFIT. NONE. ZERO. NOTHING. But I guess you like it like this rip. If it were up to people like you I guess everyone would make $2 an hour and live in cardboard boxes and eat dirt while the select 1 percent of the population that own the corporations have billions and billions of dollars to burn. The rich are getting richer and poor are getting poorer.

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Ron Ashbaugh
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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
Posts: 4837

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rip
Sheep, what you are saying is true, the worker IS the backbone of any company. They couldn't function without it.

Without a company who would the worker work for?

It's a mutual agreement. The worker needs the company, the company needs the worker. The workers job is to make a profit for the company and be a good employee.

The companys job is to provide a good product to the customer and pay what it agreed to pay it's employees.

That's it, they are not the employees momma and they are not supposed to "take care of them". They pay them for a days work.

The employee is free to leave any time he/she can find a better job.

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Ron Ashbaugh
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rip
Sheep, what you are saying is true, the worker IS the backbone of any company. They couldn't function without it.

Without a company who would the worker work for?

It's a mutual agreement. The worker needs the company, the company needs the worker. The workers job is to make a profit for the company and be a good employee.

The companys job is to provide a good product to the customer and pay what it agreed to pay it's employees.

That's it, they are not the employees momma and they are not supposed to "take care of them". They pay them for a days work.

The employee is free to leave any time he/she can find a better job.

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spoken like a true bush loveing republican. Or millionare, or very often, both.

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In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
Posts: 4837

I know, lets shutdown wal-mart, the worlds largest employer and put everyone of those people who work there on the street, and on unemployment. We'll see how much you or they are griping about the benefits then.

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Ron Ashbaugh
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

IT WILL BE THE SAME AS THEY GET NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!

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In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
Posts: 4837

quote:

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Originally posted by sheepster
IT WILL BE THE SAME AS THEY GET NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

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Originally posted by sheepster
spoken like a true bush loveing republican. Or millionare, or very often, both.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 3427

well when you are applyin and interviewin fer a job yer told the wage youll make the benefits youll get and healthcare youll recieve if the company dont meet your standards go to another company
my dad told me a long time ago son all you are in life is a whore you sell yer skills to the best company and make them happy
if people workin at wallyworld dont like the benefits and pay quit and go find another job thier are more people that will fill the spots they left jmo

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 385

profit is the pulse and heartbeat of capitalism, employess are just a means to that end... economics tells us pay the least make the most... fringes are not provided to be nice to employees, rather a need in order to attract-keep them... health care costs have esculated dramatically for a variety of reasons... many corporations as well as public sector employers are cutting back on the % of health care coverage they provide, employees are forced to pay more and more for less and less coverage... that is why we have come to the point where national health care- insurance is mandated... now should this be a government program or run through the private sector is a variable... it has to be tax supported and provided to the public, we cannot-should not measure human worth based upon the amount of one's paycheck or how long their work experience is... time has come to value the health of the nation's populace and that requires a national health plan that makes good health care a reality for all..
Rip is correct in his economics assessment, except he is dealing in an ideal setting which is often far removed from the real, supply and demand as total price-wage setters is no longer
totally operative in our mature economic system... some things more important than $$$$, profit, a few dollars more, good health is just that thing...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

There are huge problems with making it tax payer funded, even bigger than the problems we have now.

When it is government funded the best and brightest candidates quit going into the field and we will end up with even more of a shortage of health care workers than there is now. Most of those that do go through after Government involvement would be sub par and not able to make it into the field if it was still competitive, let alone graduate as an RN or MD.

Then as with any government program the rationing of the care would start, like it is in all other countrys that have government healthcare. Canada just had their stuff overturned by their courts saying nobody should be forced to wait in line for needed treatment and they could pay for it if they wanted to. People dyin with colon cancer waitin in line to get scoped. It sure does save money when they die off before they get any treatment.

Then the effective tax rate to pay for that kind of inefficient program would be 50-70% or so. Imagine payin that much in taxes to have your healthcare run like the Department of Motor Vehicles LOL.

Then you have the rationing of "healthcare dollars" which means everyone whether you are paying out of pocket or not. California is already doing that in some hospitals. If you have trouble breathing but you smoke they will withold the breathing treatments even if you want to pay for them out of pocket saying it is a waste of healthcare dollars. This is happening right now and is legal under their state system. They also want to look at everything in a numbers way, if you only have a 10% chance of surviving then they don't even try because even at your own expense because it is a "waste of money" 90% of the time.

That's what government healthcare is, rationing of care and counting beans. It's not medicine, it's cost savings.

The Government has never, will never, and can never make anything better. All they can do is make everything they touch into a nightmare.

On the other hand while the system we have is the best in the World (everyone comes here for treatment if given the choice)it could be much better. The doctors and patients share some of the blame for this mess. Many unneeded tests are run, doctors practice expensive "cover my tail" medicine for fear of lawsuits. Patients want the latest, espensive technology but don't want to pay for it, refuse generics etc. Insurance companys take premiums and refuse to pay benifits.

In my opinion the best thing we could do would be to eliminate the lawyers from the system. That's where most of the expense is, lawsuits, fear of lawsuits, malpractice premiums and un needed tests on the doctors side. Insurance premiums without benifits on the patients side, higher premiums less coverage. Making the patient go through months of treatment likely to be unsucessful before allowing better more expensive options. See the same insurance companys own the doctors and the Patients policies. The insurance companys then invest these premiums and if they make bad investments they just raise the premiums and continue to refuse to pay benifits. This could only be a lawyers idea LOL.

Anyway, go back to a pay for service system like it was 100 years ago. You want the service you pay the doctor, no insurance middle man, no premiums, no insurance denial. The doctor should have to do something intentional to get sued, and then the one suing should have to represent themselves (no more lawyers whispering in their ear that "it's a lottery and they really aren't suing a doctor that did all that was humanly possible they are suing his insurance company, it free money"). That way truly egregous acts would get punnished and the frivolus lawsuits would fall by the wayside without the sheisters pushing and conning people into filing them..

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Last edited by Rip on 03-16-2006 at 02:32 AM

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 197

part-time jobs do not get health insurance because it would be very exspensive. health insurance in the lats few vears has gone through the roof. last year dureing our contact negotations the company put a spousal carveout in it. it simple screwed me and my wife. it would have cost us at least $350 a month only because she had ins. available and choose not to take it because mine was cheaper. when i started at the company 3 years ago i was paying 5 dollars a week for good coverage. now i pay about 80 a month just for me. i knew that my insuranc could not remain that low forever, but thanks to the UNION it was at that price for several years. so dont start complaining about unions when they are what is keeping alot of bussinesses here in the U.S.A. . because it is cheaper to go overseas to make there products. but then what are we going to do with the unemployed americans. so i dont think companys should proved part-time employes with insurance but they should provide a decent wage so they can afford to seek medical attention when needed.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: NE/MO
Posts: 579

Sheep, I hope when you make it big, if you ever make a six figure salary, that you'll remember what a social democrat you are and make sure you share at least 3/4 of it with those who don't have it as good as you!

America is capitalist, whether you like it or not. There is nothing wrong with having a good idea and making as much money as you can doing it!! If you don't like it here, become Amish so your income is pooled together with the other locals for distribution or move to China.

We wonder why all the jobs are going over seas. We wanna blame Clinton or Bush, and NAFTA, and blah blah blah. Look at ourselves! Its what happens when everybody wants to make 20 bucks an hour, have full health benefits, every other day off, workers comp. coverage out the a$$, loss wage benefits, and be able to sue the employer just in case they ever decide they need to lay us off because they can't make any money paying such high wages. And then we gripe when "AMERICAN" made items cost four times the price of those from other counties.

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Posts: 385

believe pay as you go is long gone, wishful thinking... if an md like you Rip might see things a bit different... you look at the situation from the inside out, but I am on the outside and am looking in... do believe we have the best medical practicioners-technology, but the delivery system is not working, cultural lag, the technology is ahead of the system to deliver the same... have researched delivery in Europe, Canada, not perfect, but meeting more needs than what ours does... agree lawyers have forced costs up, but so has drug company profit that is called r&d... your premise that gov't. does nothing correct means we should close all police depts., public schools including medical schools that you have attended, have private military, highway systems, etc... do not want to create more-bigger gov't., but need to deliver the great health care potential we have to more people and if that takes some gov't. leadership so be it.. do not want Drs. such as yourself to make less, but need adjustment within the system...
not sure our medical facilities the only game in town, many now going to india-asia, etc. and seem to get more for less, course those folks all trained here in the good old u.s. don't have all the answers, just know that what we now have in place needs an overhaul... could go on and tell you about my thoughts about the self-annointed medical god, the doctor-lo, but will refrain... not anti doctors, but take some umbrance with the system that produces- regulates-improves them... etc... just believe time to make things better when it comes to health care, do not have a handle on all the nuts and bolts needed to do it...

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: bainbridge ny
Posts: 2589

for you that think national health care is so good speak to someone from canada where you have to wait to see a doctor for months at a time and these people have to seek medical attention in the us and pay for it out of there own pocket

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: NE/MO
Posts: 579

quote:

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Originally posted by wayne f
for you that think national health care is so good speak to someone from canada where you have to wait to see a doctor for months at a time and these people have to seek medical attention in the us and pay for it out of there own pocket

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