Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1839

Another 10 year old thread.

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Al Tarantella

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location: wis
Posts: 12

quote:

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Originally posted by Redtick
Gayle, I personally do not think Speck did that much for the English breed as a whole but there are plenty of folks that would argue the other way. Fine, they have a right to their opinion. I do know the lines of English that I am hunting, I have 2 seperate lines and breed for 2 different sets of traits in each line. I advetise the Buddy line as being Junior bred but Buddy was 100% Platte Valley on his mother's side and that side puts more nose in the line than the Junior dogs do. I like my Buddy line to be cold nosed and when I breed that line, I breed for the cold nosed tracking ability as much as the tree dog ability. I see alot of English breeders advertise cold nosed dogs (some of my friends) and I know personally their dogs are not that cold nosed. More like hot nosed. Anyone who puts alot of Speck in their dogs is not breeding for a cold nose. There may be some of the Speck-Little Joe dogs that may have had a decent nose, but almost all Speck bred dogs that I have seen were medium to hot nosed dogs. And, most just had average mouths. And, no one could win very many bench shows with alot of Speck bred dogs.
My lines of English are not perfect but most of them are true to the type of dogs I am trying to breed for. Not all coondogs are the same type of coondogs, not all English strains produce the same type of dogs, and most English folks really do not have a true to type strain of English. (Just my opinion)

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 2814

It is 2013 and I still think Hardtime Speck was nothing but a silent trailing WAlker. That's my opinion, what is yours?

Ed Bates is a fine man and had plenty of true bred English that did real well for the English breed. He was honest enough to tell me Speck was silent.

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Registered: Aug 2003
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Saw ed at Mojo hunt. Last weekend along with calvin hayes

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JOHN FRYMAN

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quote:

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Originally posted by bubba41034
Saw ed at Mojo hunt. Last weekend along with calvin hayes

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Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Georgetown, Ohio.
Posts: 1928

Buddy I would say your right on that,heck they might of road it.

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it's nice to have a tree dog but the name of the game is to have a coon in the tree.
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Doug Terrell
Phone # 937-213-1779

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Registered: Jul 2009
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Ed Bates and Calvin Hayes are as tough as it gets. Two fine men, the best in my mind! Hardtime Speck was a reproducer, most all the good English dogs around here was off him when I started. My hats off to these men! Y'all done a fine job!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Warsaw, New York
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quote:

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Originally posted by Lakeland Kennel
It is 2013 and I still think Hardtime Speck was nothing but a silent trailing WAlker. That's my opinion, what is yours?

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Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Georgetown, Ohio.
Posts: 1928

Doug you hit the nail on the head saying that.
I dont see any reason to bash a dead dog, or a live one of any breed or line. If you like one tell people,if you dont like one,keep it to your self or to friends. Bashing does nothing to help the breed,just turns people off to a breed as a hole.

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it's nice to have a tree dog but the name of the game is to have a coon in the tree.
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Doug Terrell
Phone # 937-213-1779

Last edited by Doug Terrell on 03-27-2013 at 01:01 AM

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Registered: Oct 2003
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MY BREEDING PROGRAM WOULD NEVER HAS BECOME WHAT IT HAS BECOME WITHOUT SPECK.ROCKY'S SIRE WAS A RED AND WHITE EIGHTY POUND ENGLISH HOUND. HE WAS BRED TO A SPECK FEMALE. THE ENTIRE LITTER WERE COON DOGS. ROCKY DID NOT LOOK LIKE A SPECK HOUND. HE GOT HIS LOOKS,HUNTING STYLE AND SIZE FROM HIS GRAND SIRE DAN RIVER SPOT. THE POINT IS THAT THE ENGLISH BREED OWE'S A LOT TO---- CALVIN HAYES, ED BATES AND WORLD CH HARDITME SPECK.---- JUST THINK OF ALL THE DOGS THAT NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN BORN.

Last edited by Richard Moore on 03-27-2013 at 12:03 AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Moore
MY BREEDING PROGRAM WOULD NEVER HAS BECOME WHAT IT HAS BECOME WITHOUT SPECK.ROCKY'S SIRE WAS A RED AND WHITE EIGHTY POUND ENGLISH HOUND. HE WAS BRED TO A SPECK FEMALE. THE ENTIRE LITTER WERE COON DOGS. ROCKY DID NOT LOOK LIKE A SPECK HOUND. HE GOT HIS LOOKS,HUNTING STYLE AND SIZE FROM HIS GRAND SIRE DAN RIVER SPOT. THE POINT IS THAT THE ENGLISH BREED OWE'S A LOT TO---- CALVIN HAYES, ED BATES AND WORLD CH HARDITME SPECK.---- JUST THINK OF ALL THE DOGS THAT NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN BORN.

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Registered: Jan 2010
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I reckon i,ve hunted with several dogs off Speck myself, percentage wise they were the best i,ve ever hunted with bar none. Ed Bates and Calvin Hayes were coonhunters not people who get on the internet and talk about it. Thiry some years later after I first met them they still remain close friends and are two of the best friends I ever had. Never heard them bad mouth other lines of English like some do. After nearly thirty years after SPECK died, i find it interesting that you still see HARDTIME on papers today, that would tell me that HARDTIME SPECK made quiet an impact on the english breed in spite of what some tend to believe. And one more thing when you enter a hunt there is one winner, if you can't stand to lose you best stay home, jmo. Mike Williams

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Central Illinois
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After just a quick look, I don't see anything in the English breed standards that call for an open mouthed hound. I may have missed something though.

There are several strains if English that are known for producing still trailers. I won't mention any names but if any one does some research, you will know I am speaking the truth. Some still trailers win big time in the hunts even though the rules clearly call for open trailers. No only English still trailers, still trailers of all breeds win in the hunts.

Very few genes that Speck carried are in the English gene pool these days. Just like almost every stud dog in the past, Specks genes have been outcrossed so much, I would doubt if any genetisist could find many if any genes that will trace back to Speck these days. How long has he been dead, 30 years or more?

I have never done this myself but I know for a fact that you can take any male out of tree minded strain of hound, (any breed) and cross it with a competition bred bird dog and get pups that will win competition hunts. Lots of times, you might have a hard time seeing the bird dog in the resulting pups. The bird dog will certainly tighten the resulting pups up making for some really good, tight mouthed coon dogs. But, it that what we want to breed for, part bird dogs? Personally, I will stick with full blooded English myself.

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Covington Ga.
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quote:

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Originally posted by Hystyle02
I reckon i,ve hunted with several dogs off Speck myself, percentage wise they were the best i,ve ever hunted with bar none. Ed Bates and Calvin Hayes were coonhunters not people who get on the internet and talk about it. Thiry some years later after I first met them they still remain close friends and are two of the best friends I ever had. Never heard them bad mouth other lines of English like some do. After nearly thirty years after SPECK died, i find it interesting that you still see HARDTIME on papers today, that would tell me that HARDTIME SPECK made quiet an impact on the english breed in spite of what some tend to believe. And one more thing when you enter a hunt there is one winner, if you can't stand to lose you best stay home, jmo. Mike Williams

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: ohio
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quote:

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Originally posted by Lakeland Kennel
After just a quick look, I don't see anything in the English breed standards that call for an open mouthed hound. I may have missed something though.

There are several strains if English that are known for producing still trailers. I won't mention any names but if any one does some research, you will know I am speaking the truth. Some still trailers win big time in the hunts even though the rules clearly call for open trailers. No only English still trailers, still trailers of all breeds win in the hunts.

Very few genes that Speck carried are in the English gene pool these days. Just like almost every stud dog in the past, Specks genes have been outcrossed so much, I would doubt if any genetisist could find many if any genes that will trace back to Speck these days. How long has he been dead, 30 years or more?

I have never done this myself but I know for a fact that you can take any male out of tree minded strain of hound, (any breed) and cross it with a competition bred bird dog and get pups that will win competition hunts. Lots of times, you might have a hard time seeing the bird dog in the resulting pups. The bird dog will certainly tighten the resulting pups up making for some really good, tight mouthed coon dogs. But, it that what we want to breed for, part bird dogs? Personally, I will stick with full blooded English myself.

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Warsaw, New York
Posts: 4242

quote:

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Originally posted by Lakeland Kennel
After just a quick look, I don't see anything in the English breed standards that call for an open mouthed hound. I may have missed something though I usually do.

There are several strains if English that may produce still trailers but I'm not sure. I won't mention any names but if any one does some research, you will discover all lines do including Junior. Some still trailers may win in the hunts even though the rules clearly call for open trailers. No only English still trailers, still trailers of all breeds may win in the hunts.

Very few genes that Speck, Junior, and Boyds Little Joe carried are up close in the English gene pool these days but many dogs are line bred on those traits. Just like almost every stud dog in the past, Specks genes have been outcrossed so much, I would doubt if any genetisist could find many if any genes that will trace back to Speck these days but what do I know. How long has he been dead, 30 years or more?

I have done this myself I know for a fact that you can take any male out of tree minded strain of hound, (any breed) and cross it with a competition bred bird dog and get pups that will win competition hunts. Lots of times, you might have a hard time seeing the bird dog in the resulting pups. The bird dog will certainly tighten the resulting pups up making for some really good, tight mouthed coon dogs. But, it that what we want to breed for, part bird dogs? Personally, I will stick with full blooded babblers and face barkers myselff.

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Past Home of:
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NITECH GRCH ROBINSON'S JJ THUNDER SUE

Current
CH PR ROBINSON'S OATKA VALLEY JUNEBUG - (GRNITECH PKC CH RIVER BOTTOM'S CRACKER JACK X NITECH GRCH ROBINSON'S OATKA VALLEY ANNIE)

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: West Virginia
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I saw where a guy was wanting some info on Hardtime Speck,here is one thread .

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location: BOONEVILLE KY.
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HARD TIME SPECK WAS BORN RAISED AND TRAINED IN JACKSON COUNTY KENTUCKY BELIEVE IT WAS CALVIN HAYES THAT OWNED HIM AT THAT TIME BUT COULD HAVE BEEN ANOTHER HAYES.

THAT IS IN THE TOWN OF MCKEE KENTUCKY AND 20 MILES FROM WHERE I LIVE BUT I KNOW LITTLE ABOUT HIS BREEDING OR HIS WORLD HUNT WIN.

THERE ARE STILL QUITE A FEW HAYES IN JACKSON COUNTY THAT HUNT ENGLISH DOGS I AM SURE IF ONE COULD CONTACT THE RIGHT PERSON A LOT OF GOOD IMFORMATION WOULD COME OUT.

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TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING INSTEAD
OF HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS!!!

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