Registered: Aug 2009
Location: SCOTT DEPOT , WVA
Posts: 1291

if you all look on here allen/ukc just posted a thread of the new updated moh card that is to be read before all casts are sent out to hunt and it clearly states all hunting members of the cast are voting members and if it cant be settled by all parties then a ? is to be put on card and brought back to club , SO A 3-1 VOTE IS NOT A DONE DEAL IF THE 1 ISNT HAPPY WITH THE VOTE . it probaly wont get overturned and is probaly useless but at least you spoke your mind in my opinion .

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

-Benjamin Franklin

Best analogy that could be used for this situation!

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Cole Vanover
2003 ICHA State Youth Nite Hunt Ch
2005 UKC Youth National Show Ch
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Lost Heritage Kennel
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ACHA World Champion Walker Female
Gr Ch Little Walnut Abe's Mercy Me
Vanover's Half Breed Honey
Half Breed Trouble Shooter Co-owned with Adam Hibbs
Wipeout Wyatt Earp Co-owned with Kyle Ballhagen



In Loving Memory of:
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GrNiteCh Van's Hard Knockin' Stylish Abe
ACHA World Show Ch
PKC World Ch Walker Female
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2009 Top 16 PKC Crossbreed
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2008 Top 16 PKC Pro-Am Race
PKC Ch GrNiteCh Stylish Lonesome Trouble(Ole South's Stylish Rebel X Half Breed Jessi)
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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Mt. Washington Kentucky
Posts: 425

quote:

---

Originally posted by LostHeritageKennel
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

-Benjamin Franklin

Best analogy that could be used for this situation!

---

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 135

why is it when people make suggestions about ukc having panels to help with a question certain ones gets there rumps on there shoulders who cares were it comes from if it works IT WORKS PLANE AND SIMPLE

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

quote:

---

Originally posted by JustinM
Sadly, you are misinformed, the taking the panel back out will keep more folks honest than barring of an innocence individual. There are times guys might take a good screwing and there is nothing a guy can do per the rules but taking a panel back is one rule that helps prevent it.

---

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Johnson Creek Kennels
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Last edited by Robert Johnson on 06-13-2012 at 12:58 PM

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Robert, as a pkc national association director, I need to say that you are still misinformed. The way it works is that if a panel is taken back out and it is found to be blatant that someone scored something wrong or the question was just someone wanting to stir up trouble,then misconduct charges will be brought up. However,if it is just found to be a difference of opinion on a clearly questionable call no misconduct charges will be leveled.
Works good in stopping shenanigans.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

Well Travis, that seems to be problem all over the organization. The national directors will say one thing, the ops diirector a varied version, and still another from the owner. I have no problems with the kc, other than its rules are interputed differently byb its own staff and ruler makers. Now i do take a little offense in you telling me i am mis-informed, when it was said to me, in almost exact words byt the owner, and one of the retired national folk. Do it anyway you want, but the panel going to a tree to score is a joke, and really has no place in any rulebook, for reasons already stated in my post. Most wild animals will have left the area, once the threat has left, for obvious reasons. Call it what you will, but it still makes no sense. As stated, i stand firm. Should you want to talk, call me, the number is there for multitudes.

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Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

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Robert, I am not gonna call you,just will post rule 4F out of the bluebook and say that maybe misinformed should be changed to ypu misunderstood.
4F. PANEL RETURNING TO A TREE- In order for this option to be exercised the tree must be questioned at the time of scoring to be brought before a Question Panel. If the questioning cast member does not agree with the panels ruling at the club, he/she may request that the panel return to the woods to view the tree by placing a $100 deposit with the panel chairman. If the panel inspecting the tree finds in favor of the questioning handler(s),the scorecard will be changed and the $100 will be refunded. If not,the original score will stand and the deposit will be forfeited.If the panel inspecting the tree finds this to be a mere difference of opinion with no wrong doing, disciplinary charges will not be filed. However, if the panel inspecting the tree,unanimously determines there to be blatant and intentional wrongdoing, handler(s) will be charged with handler misconduct and will be required to serve a one (1) year suspension. Additionally each handler(s) will be assessed a fine of $250,which must be paid before suspension period begins. All forfeited deposits and fine money in these cases will go directly to the pkc youth programs escrow account.

Seems to me the ones who would oppose this option might be worried about some of the trees they have been circling or minusing depending on what their dog did.So Robert I am not saying Roger Dale didn't say something about a handler or handlers getting suspended but do doubt he said that in ALL situations someone was getting barred.A person would be crazy to put his $100 up thinking a coon would still be in a tree when a panel got back.The option is more meant for trees getting minused or circled when they clearly should be scored didifferently.My number is in my signature as well if you still don't understand.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
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i understand very well, and you are the only person ever to answer in saying someone might not get barred. You see, as explained by the owner and a staffer, and yes they are higher up on your food chain over there, they clearly stated to me that the panel going back out to score wasn't where the barring came in. As, in their own words, the barring would be for misconduct, in going so far to have to get a panel out there. it may or may not be the person questioning, but someone on the cast was getting barred. plain and simple, i can not say it any clearer than that. It was said to me as stated. You see the rules, are about as clear as mud. Yes, the rule you quoted is clearer now, in terms of how its written, and some of that is thanks to folks like myself that will question and not be the staus qoe click guy. I questioned it and both times, it was said it needed clearification. i guess the way its written now is better, but in your own words, most plus coons would be gone by the time you could get back. why would you question anyway? with that said, what good is a panel? i have seen more panels mess up the rules than any one knowledgable man or woman. Panels don't have to pass atest to become licensed, and they can and do live by past rulebooks or just the good ole boy system. That holds true for any panel in any KC. this one included. its a joke in its best form. Sure, you money guys can just throw them 100.00 bills out like candy and get whatever you want if you don't agree with the first panel..while i do and will hunt in the place to be at times, i don't trust that anyone can clearly know the rules all the time..i don't. Problem is there is nothing to base any rule finding anywhere on. There is no OFFICAL INTERPUTATION booklet or otherwise to go on. NO SIR. I have seen the working of panels in big hunts, as well as some of the National Directors in action. I really don't need that, but i will honestly say i do hope they barr me one day for doing what the rules say i have a right to do, but unwritten, and unknowingly committed a crime in the eyes of the panel, and get disciplined. Yep...Won't be a good day to be in the place to be for anyone then. that part would be a given, but then i have told your staffers too. enough with you, you're to smart for me. I'm just a poor old country boy down here in the south. we'll keep our toys the way they are and you can have yours. we aren't greedy. why should we change to be like you? panels...that something we put up around our hog pens.

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Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

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Nobody ever talks about the practical impact of taking a panel back out to the tree. You do it in UKC and the whole hunt suffers for it. Our club had a 3:00am deadline for both nights of our UKC hunts last weekend. We sent casts as far as 40 miles to hunt. That's nearly an hour driving to the woods and an hour back. The last cast comes in at 2:30 and takes a panel back out to a tree. That's a 2 hour round. Till they come back and then hand out awards, nobody's going home before 5:00am. Sorry, but it ain't worth all that. PKC has their rules, UKC has HONOR RULES. Vote the tree and move on.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
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Jim, a panel went back out to a tree in UKC?

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Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

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Registered: Oct 2010
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Jim, I will say having a pannel in some circumstances is a very good thing. Its amazing how quickly someone will vote honestly as soon as the words im bringing a pannel out here are said. Very rarely does it even come to that. Just the presence of ha ing it in place would work great in my oppinion.

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Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Robert Johnson
Jim, a panel went back out to a tree in UKC?

---

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PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

ok..just had me wondering..

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Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

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Location: Tekamah,Neb.
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Jim, I will say having a pannel in some circumstances is a very good thing. Its amazing how quickly someone will vote honestly as soon as the words im bringing a pannel out here are said. Very rarely does it even come to that. Just the presence of ha ing it in place would work great in my oppinion.

---

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 326

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Jim, I will say having a pannel in some circumstances is a very good thing. Its amazing how quickly someone will vote honestly as soon as the words im bringing a pannel out here are said. Very rarely does it even come to that. Just the presence of ha ing it in place would work great in my oppinion.

---

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Cole Vanover
2003 ICHA State Youth Nite Hunt Ch
2005 UKC Youth National Show Ch
2005 ACHA Youth World Show Ch
2005 KY State Youth Show Ch
2006 ICHA State Youth Show Ch
2006 ICHA State Youth Reserve Nite Hunt Ch

Lost Heritage Kennel
Home of:
2011 PKC Crossbreed Champion
2010 Top 10 PKC Crossbreed
2010 Top 16 PKC KY State
Arkansas Pro Hunt Semi-finalist
SilverCh GrNiteCh Ch Ton's Half Quart Tanner
ACHA World Champion Walker Female
Gr Ch Little Walnut Abe's Mercy Me
Vanover's Half Breed Honey
Half Breed Trouble Shooter Co-owned with Adam Hibbs
Wipeout Wyatt Earp Co-owned with Kyle Ballhagen



In Loving Memory of:
Johnny Vanover Jr.
GrNiteCh Van's Hard Knockin' Stylish Abe
ACHA World Show Ch
PKC World Ch Walker Female
PKC BCh GrCh Cherry Creek Faith
2009 Top 16 PKC Crossbreed
2008 Top 24 PKC Crossbreed
2008 Top 16 PKC Pro-Am Race
PKC Ch GrNiteCh Stylish Lonesome Trouble(Ole South's Stylish Rebel X Half Breed Jessi)
2005 PKC Canada Leader
GrNiteCh Silver Ch Vanover's Stylish Zena
PKC Ch NiteCh Hardwood China

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Well, I don't play poker so I'm not much of a bluffer.

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PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
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Didn't say I wouldn't follow through...just saying that mentioning bringing a panel back will do more to improve the situation immediately.

__________________
Cole Vanover
2003 ICHA State Youth Nite Hunt Ch
2005 UKC Youth National Show Ch
2005 ACHA Youth World Show Ch
2005 KY State Youth Show Ch
2006 ICHA State Youth Show Ch
2006 ICHA State Youth Reserve Nite Hunt Ch

Lost Heritage Kennel
Home of:
2011 PKC Crossbreed Champion
2010 Top 10 PKC Crossbreed
2010 Top 16 PKC KY State
Arkansas Pro Hunt Semi-finalist
SilverCh GrNiteCh Ch Ton's Half Quart Tanner
ACHA World Champion Walker Female
Gr Ch Little Walnut Abe's Mercy Me
Vanover's Half Breed Honey
Half Breed Trouble Shooter Co-owned with Adam Hibbs
Wipeout Wyatt Earp Co-owned with Kyle Ballhagen



In Loving Memory of:
Johnny Vanover Jr.
GrNiteCh Van's Hard Knockin' Stylish Abe
ACHA World Show Ch
PKC World Ch Walker Female
PKC BCh GrCh Cherry Creek Faith
2009 Top 16 PKC Crossbreed
2008 Top 24 PKC Crossbreed
2008 Top 16 PKC Pro-Am Race
PKC Ch GrNiteCh Stylish Lonesome Trouble(Ole South's Stylish Rebel X Half Breed Jessi)
2005 PKC Canada Leader
GrNiteCh Silver Ch Vanover's Stylish Zena
PKC Ch NiteCh Hardwood China

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:

---

Originally posted by LostHeritageKennel
Didn't say I wouldn't follow through...just saying that mentioning bringing a panel back will do more to improve the situation immediately.

---

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 326

A lot of blind people at your club? If not this wouldn't be a problem.

__________________
Cole Vanover
2003 ICHA State Youth Nite Hunt Ch
2005 UKC Youth National Show Ch
2005 ACHA Youth World Show Ch
2005 KY State Youth Show Ch
2006 ICHA State Youth Show Ch
2006 ICHA State Youth Reserve Nite Hunt Ch

Lost Heritage Kennel
Home of:
2011 PKC Crossbreed Champion
2010 Top 10 PKC Crossbreed
2010 Top 16 PKC KY State
Arkansas Pro Hunt Semi-finalist
SilverCh GrNiteCh Ch Ton's Half Quart Tanner
ACHA World Champion Walker Female
Gr Ch Little Walnut Abe's Mercy Me
Vanover's Half Breed Honey
Half Breed Trouble Shooter Co-owned with Adam Hibbs
Wipeout Wyatt Earp Co-owned with Kyle Ballhagen



In Loving Memory of:
Johnny Vanover Jr.
GrNiteCh Van's Hard Knockin' Stylish Abe
ACHA World Show Ch
PKC World Ch Walker Female
PKC BCh GrCh Cherry Creek Faith
2009 Top 16 PKC Crossbreed
2008 Top 24 PKC Crossbreed
2008 Top 16 PKC Pro-Am Race
PKC Ch GrNiteCh Stylish Lonesome Trouble(Ole South's Stylish Rebel X Half Breed Jessi)
2005 PKC Canada Leader
GrNiteCh Silver Ch Vanover's Stylish Zena
PKC Ch NiteCh Hardwood China

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 135

I agree with that statement if everyone would do what there suppose to do we wouldnt be having this conversation.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by LostHeritageKennel
I haven't heard of many people getting barred in the other KC for this. The threat of people getting barred does more to help the situation immediately than the actual barring itself.

---

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

quote:

---

Originally posted by smokin-1-mo
ROBERT KNOWS IT ALL.....DIDNT YOU READ HIS LAST SENTANCE IT HIS KENNEL CLUB..HEY ROBERT WHERE DO YOU THINK UKC GOT THE HUNT DIRECTOR FORMAT WITH THE PANAL HERING THE QUESTIONS....THATS RIGHT..YOU BETTER GET ON THE BUS OUR YOU WILL BE LEFT BEHIND THINGS ARE CHANGING THERE IS NO NEED FOR YOU MASTER OF HOUNDS,UNLESS YOU CAN MAKE COFFEE......

---

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Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

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Treeing Walkers

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Robert just relax. No one but you has said pkc is the place to be. I really don't think the ukc board is the place to lobby pkc for an "Advisor".The pkc board is probably where that arguement should be.I, also enjoy the differences as well. I just said on the post about a tree countdown that I opposed it for ukc. The being able to take a panel back out option was brought up as a way to curb some of the blatant wrong scoring of trees. Now that it costs another $100 to take a panel back out it seems to me that it only gets excercised in cases were someone is dang sure they were wronged. It was only a suggestion and not one person that has responded in favor has insulted ukc for not having it.

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Last edited by StrawberryMt on 06-15-2012 at 02:38 PM

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i'm not doing any lobbying Travis. I really could care less, I have only stated facts as presented to me, by the place to be staffers. As i said, the lobbying was done to the owner himself, on the phone, and through email. As for relaxing, i am relaxed. you are the one who "doubted" the truth in what i said. Oh i have been called a know it all before also, and will be again. I'm a big boy and can take most anything that is dished out, but i do not to and won't be called a liar by anyone with out rebuke. WHAT I STATED WAS FACT AS TOLD. By the way, the PKC board is not the place to get anything done. Say something that the staffers don't like, you get it blocked, they send you a nasty little email, and threaten your membership. Its a ghestopo over there. Ask Engle. His mojo hunt didn't benfit them so it was deleted. Well enuff of this stuff. I'm done with this thread. Might is made, and yes you are right, i did say the place to be, but that was a joke also, and still is as far as being able to use a board you must pay to get on to make a needed point. I'll call you sometime and we can chat. Truley a gentlemen's conversation, no bashing, or otherwise.

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Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

Bright Eye Lights


Treeing Walkers

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