Registered: Feb 2010
Location: MO
Posts: 220

i dont realy think it is a nose problem they pull up short when track is hot and coon is close dog gets excited knows coon is close and grabs a tree

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quote:

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Originally posted by toe cutter
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BUT NO PUP IS BORN WITH ANY CONCEPT OF WHAT A TREE IS. ONLY THE INSTINCT TO TREE BARK FOR WHAT EVER THEY WANT BAD ENOUGH........

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Registered: May 2004
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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Ashbaugh
A lot of times excessive slick treeing is blamed partially on too much tree bred in and other times it is blamed on trainer error. Likely it is a combination of both.

So in this day and age of dogs with plenty of tree how does a trainer adjust his strategy to get the best out of a dog that isn't afraid to get wooded? What is too harsh punishment for a young dog treeing slick? What is good encouragement but not too much for a dog that is starting to tree coon?

Lets have a good discussion and some strategy here!!

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Perry Metcalf.. Go Big Blue !

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quote:

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Originally posted by l.lyle
I don't doubt that at all and I hope it proves to be a nice experience for you. I had one do that at 4 months old in the late '80s. I was so impressed I wasted about 8 years on that line of dogs just to realise they were so so at best.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: chokeabitch river, michigan
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must be the differance right there, some dogs tree just to be hooked.
mine tree because the track goes up the tree and they can't climb.
any dog can be beat and not have the coon ,but if your dog trees just to be treeing you might as well give it the dirt nap now.
simple fact is dogs that slick tree that bad dont have the brains to learn track sense that makes them accurate tree dogs.
or they have been made tree happy by people trying to teach them to tree.
its both from breeding and in training.
it was'nt the breeding for harder louder tree dogs, it was from breeding the part of the track out called checking the tree with the intent to make them faster tree dogs. a dog that checks its trees hard will not get too many 1st trees unless it is also a independant dog. its like you cant have it both ways, fast or accurate. most fast locating tree dogs or one bark tree dogs in a crowd are usually not nearly as accurate as the dog that takes the time to make sure its got the right finish to the track.
but you guys hash it out , i'm not having that problem with mine,they are pretty good about having the coon and they also aint much on covering other dogs treed slick either. i'm seeing thats very rare these days.

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Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
So , what is it , that they want so bad , that is up an empty tree?
Don't think I've ever seen a dog slick on a power pole , car , etc.

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Last edited by toe cutter on 04-24-2012 at 06:04 AM

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I have been slowly swapping over for ten years by cross breeding. I liked alot of things in my old walkers and scared to devorce and start over so I crossbred. What I did like: Strike, trail, run,run hot, Locate. It was up to me to tree him or not at that point because he would check and get covered by his doughter before he ever got back to blowing it out, which probably wasn't over 30-45 seconds to get right , but neverthe less , his daughter had a first unless I called him on the Locate. Now what I realy liked alot about him was strike, trail, trail not so great he telling me, He had a sign off bark for quiting a track that said "Ftis track" it sonded exactly like a locate but I knew betterbecause he was telling me the whole time it was a mess around track and I knew he was fixing to quit it any minute.
It is up to the handler to know the doga nad all the dogs BS.Which realy ain't BS it is the truth and I appreciate the dog giving me fair warning of it.

The day I knew he had started reverting to BS was when on a hot running track and him ahead of the race , he located and I took his word for it and in ten seconds his daughter and my other pups were hammering down.. They all blowing the top out of it. We get closer to the tree and it hard to hear over all the noise going on, but I don't hear him that good. What it is is he sneeked off a hundred yards and was treeing easy under his breath. till I got to the tree he had planted those fools on and then he would blow it out. They wanted to puull too him even. Now that was a sneacky dog. I caught him at it by keeping up with my light off and staying close. You tailgait squaters will never understand. He would plant dogs on a tree in a heartbeat and ease on off. It was so easy then for me to wear those puppies asses clean out for not checking it was un real easy. I loved that lier. He sure helped me train the dogs I got today.

He finally got senile about 10. He would hang around with all the hoopla. We would shine and I would say to my buddy in a natural tone of voice that there aint no coon in this tree and watch him out the corner of my light. It was exactly like he said to me : "OH H, I forgot, and take off and tree in 10-15 seconds with the coon up a leafless white oak instaed of a live oak grove. More puppy wearing ask kinkings though. No way around that.

Last edited by l.lyle on 04-24-2012 at 06:53 AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by toe cutter
must be the differance right there, some dogs tree just to be hooked.
mine tree because the track goes up the tree and they can't climb.
any dog can be beat and not have the coon ,but if your dog trees just to be treeing you might as well give it the dirt nap now.
simple fact is dogs that slick tree that bad dont have the brains to learn track sense that makes them accurate tree dogs.
or they have been made tree happy by people trying to teach them to tree.
its both from breeding and in training.
it was'nt the breeding for harder louder tree dogs, it was from breeding the part of the track out called checking the tree with the intent to make them faster tree dogs. a dog that checks its trees hard will not get too many 1st trees unless it is also a independant dog. its like you cant have it both ways, fast or accurate. most fast locating tree dogs or one bark tree dogs in a crowd are usually not nearly as accurate as the dog that takes the time to make sure its got the right finish to the track.
but you guys hash it out , i'm not having that problem with mine,they are pretty good about having the coon and they also aint much on covering other dogs treed slick either. i'm seeing thats very rare these days.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
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I've started a good many pups. Spent more time doing it than I should have. That being said. Not the first one of them was a slick treeing monster when first starting to tree!!! Some may have learned it from older hounds. Im sure I caused some of it by loving them up on trees, shooting to many coon to em and whatever else you can think of. I try and be more careful now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
I've started a good many pups. Spent more time doing it than I should have. That being said. Not the first one of them was a slick treeing monster when first starting to tree!!! Some may have learned it from older hounds. Im sure I caused some of it by loving them up on trees, shooting to many coon to em and whatever else you can think of. I try and be more careful now.

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Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Hope,Arkansas
Posts: 19

I don't pet and praise my pups on the tree after I have found the
Coon I leash them off about 20 yards or so talk to them like
I would talk to my son for a good grade and pet their head for
A few seconds mainly I talk to them just as I would a person
My dogs don't miss many I also don't blow a squall and most of
The time with a red lense first they will look if I have not found him with
A couple of minutes I will take lense off I have found coons
Are not that hard to find if they are there

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Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Hope,Arkansas
Posts: 19

Most dogs aim to please so when they see you all happy and rubbing
Them telling him to talk to em they will be looking to pleae you again
And pull up short that why I walk off the tree before I pet and talk to
Them if they pull up short I don't talk to him and don't really walk
Away from tree and cut them right there don't let him back on that tree
And don't walk away until he picks track back up

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Registered: Sep 2003
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There's as many reasons for a dog messing up as there is dogs that mess up ....

But yeah , some dogs are born with an itch to tree ... they don't care about coon , scent or being petted .. they just love to throw back and bark ...

Like a cowdog that herds the kids or puts the laying hens in a corner while you're at work and keeps them there til' they both have heat strokes ... you breed dogs long enough for a trait and they come out of the womb with OCD-like behavior for that trait.

That kind of treedog isn't the handlers fault nor will it ever be a coondog ....


I never knew what was wrong with wanting dogs that just treed or bayed what they ran ... not sure where this " track" or " tree" comes from ... they are either coon savvy or not ... those terms are just fancy ways of saving a cull or something ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dirtdevil
There's as many reasons for a dog messing up as there is dogs that mess up ....

But yeah , some dogs are born with an itch to tree ... they don't care about coon , scent or being petted .. they just love to throw back and bark ...

Like a cowdog that herds the kids or puts the laying hens in a corner while you're at work and keeps them there til' they both have heat strokes ... you breed dogs long enough for a trait and they come out of the womb with OCD-like behavior for that trait.

That kind of treedog isn't the handlers fault nor will it ever be a coondog ....


I never knew what was wrong with wanting dogs that just treed or bayed what they ran ... not sure where this " track" or " tree" comes from ... they are either coon savvy or not ... those terms are just fancy ways of saving a cull or something ...

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Last edited by l.lyle on 04-26-2012 at 06:08 AM

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a pup slick treeing aint never a good sign i dont think. i believe most of that is bred in a dog unless they have been showed alot of trap coons. i know a pup will miss some but it shouldnt be to often cause all they will run most the time are the hot tracks. as a dog gets older they will start tackling a tougher track, i never pull my dog off a tough track cause thats the only way there going to learn what they can handle and what they cant. around here if a dog can only run a hot track your not going to see many coons cause they aint many. i hunted with a dog that would tree every time he saw a hunting light thru the woods and the guy that owned him would go to him and pet him up just like there was a coon in the tree. i asked him one time why you petting your dog for treeing slick? he said his dog just wants a coon so bad lol.

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quote:

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Originally posted by skeets
a pup slick treeing aint never a good sign i dont think. i believe most of that is bred in a dog unless they have been showed alot of trap coons. i know a pup will miss some but it shouldnt be to often cause all they will run most the time are the hot tracks. as a dog gets older they will start tackling a tougher track, i never pull my dog off a tough track cause thats the only way there going to learn what they can handle and what they cant. around here if a dog can only run a hot track your not going to see many coons cause they aint many. i hunted with a dog that would tree every time he saw a hunting light thru the woods and the guy that owned him would go to him and pet him up just like there was a coon in the tree. i asked him one time why you petting your dog for treeing slick? he said his dog just wants a coon so bad lol.

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Registered: Jul 2011
Location: tennessee
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lol lyle the guy was a brick shy of a load and was hotheaded but he won alot of hunts with that ole dog some how.lol

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I really dont think you can have too much tree bred in, now you can have brains bred out, there may be the problem. I would rather fool with a pup that started treeing before ever opening on the first track, at least you know it stops and pretty good bet the trail will come along with time.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Glenn Wells
I really dont hink you can have too much tree bred in, now you can have brains bred out, there may be the problem. I would rather fool with a pup that started treeing before ever opening on the first track, at least you know it stops and pretty good bet the trail will come along with time.

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Registered: Jan 2010
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How about lot of Banjo with a little Finley River to keep it sweet ! You have to keep it smart, to use all the tools that came with it. You asked about the old dog you started with, Lipper had that blood line, came out of Bobby Shives dogs. So guess there are a few dogs still packing little strands here and there.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Glenn Wells
How about lot of Banjo with a little Finley River to keep it sweet ! You have to keep it smart, to use all the tools that came with it. You asked about the old dog you started with, Lipper had that blood line, came out of Bobby Shives dogs. So guess there are a few dogs still packing little strands here and there.

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Benton, KY
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Yep l.lyle it's still working, folks don't realize it though. They look at the 3 generation, thinking it's the dog, when its the lines coming into those 2 dogs. You can see it in the 6 or more generation pedigrees, gives a map on direction to go, without having to do a complete outcross to keep it just right.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Carl Fox
I have seen many Dohoney'S Boone pups tree before they ever ran a track in fact a Buddy and i had two litter mates that made seven trees one nite when they were only 7 months old with nothing in not one tree my Buddy's dog made a pretty decent dog but his or mine never did have much hunt power but really looked good on those slick trees.lol.

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Last edited by l.lyle on 04-27-2012 at 01:48 AM

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Well here is my 2 cents. I'm no expert at all but where I come from we call em slick treeing idiots. I don't think a dog can have to much tree. A lot of that comes from guys making them that way. If they tree just to tree I think its cause they think that is what you want them to do all the time. I've seen a lot of guys let there pup tree knowing that no coon was up there. They just say. Let em tree its good for them to wanna tree. Well not me if there gonna tree it better be because something is up there or is close that maybe they think its up there.

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quote:

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Originally posted by T Felderman
Its been my experience that young dogs just starting out dont miss very often. Its when they get a little age is when they start to miss.

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