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Going back and unminus tree? 2 trees touch and dog is running back and forth?so we score as one tree? Sounds to me like dog might have just laid up one and got lucky on that senario

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Of course not John. I would simply say the dog must PICK A TREE and stick to it. Either one is plussed because they join which makes it one tree for purposes of scoring but I sure wouldn't allow a dog to run back and forth between both trees.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Of course not John. I would simply say the dog must PICK A TREE and stick to it. Either one is plussed because they join which makes it one tree for purposes of scoring but I sure wouldn't allow a dog to run back and forth between both trees.

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One tree at the top is not one tree at the bottom in my opinion and I side with Jim.

two seperate dogs on two different tree trunks can be scored as one and I agree. but a dog that running back and fourth on trees that could be 30-50 feet apart should be minused even if it is one tree at the top. A dog must stay treed. With UKC allowing this movement gives power to the old myth "treeing under the canopy" if a dog is circling a tree canopy that is 40' in diameter he would be minused with me judging and the samething as for a dog bouncing back and fourth between bases of a tree that is a distance apart

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Well, I'm betting they know they screwed tha pooch on that one but they prolly figure their's no going back now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Jim, big difference when comparing the two scenarios isn't it? (yours and trees scored as one)

When a dog is declared treed it must stay where it is being scored at until handled - tree, hole, pile or telephone pole. In your case, the declared dog left the tree and came into the cast. Minus tree points. Luckily its strike points were still live at the time it arrived with the caught coon. Plus the strike points and recast. If you don;t know what strike position is now available ask Trevor.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Jim, big difference when comparing the two scenarios isn't it? (yours and trees scored as one)

When a dog is declared treed it must stay where it is being scored at until handled - tree, hole, pile or telephone pole.

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Location: ackerman,ms
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quote:

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Originally posted by crossbblues
okay add this in........when a dog carrying a strike position comes back into handlers. His strike points are minused. So would Dog A not get strike minused for coming back in even tho he was carrying a coon?? if you went to were the dog was and found him with dead coon......plus the strike points.......but the dog came back in basicly off track once he was minued from the tree......

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quote:

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Originally posted by patches9452
how can he be minused for quiting a track.... hes carrying the track with him

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quote:

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Originally posted by mleck
One tree at the top is not one tree at the bottom in my opinion and I side with Jim.

two seperate dogs on two different tree trunks can be scored as one and I agree. but a dog that running back and fourth on trees that could be 30-50 feet apart should be minused even if it is one tree at the top. A dog must stay treed. With UKC allowing this movement gives power to the old myth "treeing under the canopy" if a dog is circling a tree canopy that is 40' in diameter he would be minused with me judging and the samething as for a dog bouncing back and fourth between bases of a tree that is a distance apart

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:

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Originally posted by jculler8
In my opinion, the handler should have never treed his dog while it was baying/catching a coon. I know I know the difference in my dog's bark. Minus tree, plus the strike. You never know, that dog could have treed a litter and realized there was a kitten hanging in a bush nearby and grabbed it and came into the cast after leaving the initial tree.

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The rules say that dogs are to be handled on split trees AND THEN judge and cast decide if they touch and are to be scored as one tree.So to me,until they are handled it is two trees.In fact,UKC says they are to be put down on the card as seperate trees.If one gets down before he is handled then he hasn't held HIS tree.I never could understand UKC's thought process on this?At that time,IT'S NOT ONE TREE,you are scoring them as a split tree and one just moved....HE NEEDS MINUSED.jmo.

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quote:

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Originally posted by stillwater farm
The rules say that dogs are to be handled on split trees AND THEN judge and cast decide if they touch and are to be scored as one tree.So to me,until they are handled it is two trees.In fact,UKC says they are to be put down on the card as seperate trees.If one gets down before he is handled then he hasn't held HIS tree.I never could understand UKC's thought process on this?At that time,IT'S NOT ONE TREE,you are scoring them as a split tree and one just moved....HE NEEDS MINUSED.jmo.

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We'll have to agree to disagree Rip,I don't think I missed any boat.In this situation the only thing that missed was one of those two dogs.LOL.To me,if mine says it climbed the pine tree,he needs to be on THAT pine tree and if yours thinks it climbed the oak 30 feet over it needs to stay there.Neither one should be going and hanging out with the other regardless if they touch or not up top and if they do they need minused.Until they're handled it is two seperate trees and should be scored as such.JMO.

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Location: Morrison TN
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quote:

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Originally posted by stillwater farm
We'll have to agree to disagree Rip,I don't think I missed any boat.In this situation the only thing that missed was one of those two dogs.LOL.To me,if mine says it climbed the pine tree,he needs to be on THAT pine tree and if yours thinks it climbed the oak 30 feet over it needs to stay there.Neither one should be going and hanging out with the other regardless if they touch or not up top and if they do they need minused.Until they're handled it is two seperate trees and should be scored as such.JMO.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
To me, the obvious answer is the dog stays minused but......since UKC says we must UNMINUS them when they cover two trees scored as one, how do we not go back and correct this situation too? The dog was treed on a caught coon. Rule 3(b) clearly states you delete tree points when the coon is caught. If we must UNMINUS the dog on two trees, why don't we UNMINUS this dog?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rip


UKC has always maintained one tree at top one tree at bottom. If they are one then the dog hasn't left anything bouncing between the two trunks because both are the same tree.

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I can't understand why we would score 2 trees as 1 anyway. The coon didn't go up in 2 places.
In my opinion , the only time we should score multiple trees as one is if they all come off the same rootball.
Not just because they touch at the top.

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I realize that is UKC's position on it Rip and that is what I don't understand.What's the difference in these senerios other than top of trees touch.That isn't going to change my dogs actions because he don't know if they touch or not.

1)My dog is treed in,when we get close to him he is on a pine tree,before he is handled,he gets down,goes over 30 ft and starts treeing on a big oak tree.By the rules....he is minused and must be retreed.

2)Mine is on the pine tree and yours is over 30 ft on the oak,as we get there mine gets down and goes to yours on the oak.Trees don't touch....he's minused.

3)Mine is on the pine and yours is 30 ft over on the oak,mine goes to yours as we get there but they do touch......score as one and plus them both up.


Here's my feelings on it.All three conditions my dog has done the exact same thing,he has left his tree and moved and deserves minused regardless if the trees touch 30 feet up in the air or not.The rules are designed for a dog to be judged on the ability to strike,trail,and accurately locate and hold there tree.In all three situations my dog did not hold his tree.I know how UKC rules say to score but my personal opinion he needs minused.

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Did it ever occur to any of you that maybe the coon left the tree earlier by coming down one trunk and upon returning to the tree after feeding, it climbed the other trunk. Some times there are two coon up the same tree even though you only see one, maybe each one climbed a different trunk.

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Registered: Nov 2010
Location: Texico, Il.
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quote:

---

Originally posted by stillwater farm
I realize that is UKC's position on it Rip and that is what I don't understand.What's the difference in these senerios other than top of trees touch.That isn't going to change my dogs actions because he don't know if they touch or not.

1)My dog is treed in,when we get close to him he is on a pine tree,before he is handled,he gets down,goes over 30 ft and starts treeing on a big oak tree.By the rules....he is minused and must be retreed.

2)Mine is on the pine tree and yours is over 30 ft on the oak,as we get there mine gets down and goes to yours on the oak.Trees don't touch....he's minused.

3)Mine is on the pine and yours is 30 ft over on the oak,mine goes to yours as we get there but they do touch......score as one and plus them both up.


Here's my feelings on it.All three conditions my dog has done the exact same thing,he has left his tree and moved and deserves minused regardless if the trees touch 30 feet up in the air or not.The rules are designed for a dog to be judged on the ability to strike,trail,and accurately locate and hold there tree.In all three situations my dog did not hold his tree.I know how UKC rules say to score but my personal opinion he needs minused.

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I have to agree with you. I don't like minus anymore than anyone else but dog needs to commit to a tree, plus this senario doesn't really happen that often. Does it?If dog would have stayed split and trees touch plus both

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Came down one, went back up the other.... that must be it.
With all these possibilities, we should never minus them for anything. Just add up plus points and ignore all minus/circle points. There are no mistakes, just coons seen and enough excuses to choke a bluetick. And if somebody does decide to just take their minus....well we'll just shoot that s.o.b. before word gets around.

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Registered: Nov 2010
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LoL thats funny stuff Jim, Next we'll be hearin coons can fly

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I had this scenario play out one night while I was judging. Only two dogs left in the cast we cut them on a creek and they were both winding a coon when cut. They crossed the creek and struck went up a tall bank and started treeing about 60 feet from the cast. Both dogs treed and you could tell they were split about 15 feet apart. The one guy treed(dog A) and the other decided to wait and see if his dog (dog B) was going to check himself. Of course about a minute in I can plainly hear dog A is now with dog B so I minus A. Dog B is then treed and dog A is Retreed. As we are crossing the creek and coming up the bank Dog A leaves dog B and goes back to where he was to the right. So I minus him again his owner trees him again . All dogs are treed so both dogs are handled. As we start shining dog B's tree it is obvious a large branch is broken on Dog A's tree and laying into Dog B's tree. Now as a judge I stopped the shine time and said we need to score this as one tree. Both handlers were curious as to how this would effect the scoring. I said we would need to unminus dog A and give him first tree since he was treed first. I felt this was the right thing to do if it is considered one tree. All handlers accepted the judgement without questioning the call (which I told them they could do). So we resumed the shine time and found that there was a coon in Dog B's tree and there was another on the broken branch going from A's tree to B's tree. I've thought this scenario through many times in my head and feel that was the best way I could have handled it.

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Registered: May 2007
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 311

I do have a question for everyone saying the dog needs to be where the coon went up the tree? What do you do if you have a big oak tree and the dog is treed sitting 20 feet from the trunk right under a coon sitting 15 feet above him and the other dogs are on the trunk treeing? Is it possible the dog not on the trunk is treeing the same coon?

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