Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Troy NC
Posts: 2288

I don't doubt that happened one bit. If I can't beat with the hound, I will beat with my mind....Thats the very reason many people never show up to the hunts.

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Danny VunCannon
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

The Handler should file a complaint. The MOH should not be one anymore

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Michael Ghorley

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THATS RIGHT.....THATS WHY I LIKE THE IDEAL OF A HUNT PANEL....THATS THE REASON WHY PEOPLE DONT GO TO HUNTS LIKE THEY USE TO ...TO MUCH B.S.....

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by poolecw
Jim, what rules would back that up? What you said is how I have always scored it when this situation comes up. Nine times out of ten someone gets ticked off and gets their feelings hurt.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by poolecw
Well, I will tell you guys something....this actually happend at an RQE last night. Dog D wasn't at the tree when the cast arrived. The judge said "dog D isn't here, so he's minused." Then, the handler of dog D sees him about 100 yards away coming in. He comes in to the hander. The judge sees the dog and instructs the handler to handle him. Shinning has not started at this point. After shinning and possum found, the first three dogs are scratched and they want to scratch dog D. Handler D questions it. They take a vote and its 3 to 1 on scratching the dog. The go back to the clubhouse. They explain it to the MOH who then asked the question "did ya'll vote on it in the woods? If so, I have to go with the vote". So, all four go to the house including dog D (who was winning the cast and would have had an hour to go back out to hun).

This just goes to show you that UKC rules are vague, even though most experienced competition hunters know the rules. Whats more important is that not all MOH's know the rules. I've seen many MOH's make the wrong call. You would think that at a RQE, the MOH that is used would be proficient enough to be able to handle anything that comes up.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1411

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
UKC's rules are not vague at all, it's just that few bother to really learn them.
You would have got that MOH overturned if you had filed an FC and the MOH would have gotten a letter explaining that he screwed you. But yo didn't take it all the way and that's on you.

About the second time you win your FC is about the last time you have to file one because after that, they stop screwing with you.

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Last edited by poolecw on 03-18-2012 at 03:11 PM

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Rock Springs Wisconsin
Posts: 821

Just tell the handler of dog d to call ukc mon. they will deal with him it happened to me so it this deal should be taken care of as well.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
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quote:

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Originally posted by Blackwater Pete
Just tell the handler of dog d to call ukc mon. they will deal with him it happened to me so it this deal should be taken care of as well.

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Rougemont North Carolina
Posts: 104

Did D xome into tree or cast? If came into cast and did not offer to tree then he should of been left alone. Why would judge ask to handle dog D??

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1411

quote:

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Originally posted by Winston Puryear
Did D xome into tree or cast? If came into cast and did not offer to tree then he should of been left alone. Why would judge ask to handle dog D??

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Dogs at tree must be handled. "At tree", what is that? Well, if the cast is at the tree and the dog comes into the cast or any member of the cast. I would consider that dog to be "at the tree" and I'd order it handled. That is just how I would handle it, doesn't mean it is absolutely right. But it probably is.

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Registered: Sep 2003
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THAT JIM KNOWS HIS CHIT.....AND I AGREE AGAIN....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Jim is absolutely positively right on this.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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Well you guys ain't no fun......

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Registered: Feb 2012
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Posts: 18

THAT'S PITIFUL!!!! THE RULE IS HE IS MINUSED FOR LEAVING A TREE...NOT NECESSARILY THE TREE. YOU CAN'T SCRATCH HIM WHEN THE CAST BEAT HIM TO THE TREE. HE CAME INTO HIS HANDLER...PATHETIC!!!

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
UKC's rules are not vague at all, it's just that few bother to really learn them.
You would have got that MOH overturned if you had filed an FC and the MOH would have gotten a letter explaining that he screwed you. But yo didn't take it all the way and that's on you.

About the second time you win your FC is about the last time you have to file one because after that, they stop screwing with you.

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1411

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Has anyone on here ever filed a "formal complaint" ? does anyone on here know anyone personaly that ever filed a formal complaint ? What was the final outcome ? Before Pool ever posted the results if you guys will back up earlier in the thread you'll see what I said. NO WAY in this world are three other guys INCLUDING THE JUDGE about to let dog D go back out and hunt and win that hunt in that situation. no way.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Has anyone on here ever filed a "formal complaint" ? does anyone on here know anyone personaly that ever filed a formal complaint ? What was the final outcome ? Before Pool ever posted the results if you guys will back up earlier in the thread you'll see what I said. NO WAY in this world are three other guys INCLUDING THE JUDGE about to let dog D go back out and hunt and win that hunt in that situation. no way.

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AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 3790

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Has anyone on here ever filed a "formal complaint" ? does anyone on here know anyone personaly that ever filed a formal complaint ? What was the final outcome ? Before Pool ever posted the results if you guys will back up earlier in the thread you'll see what I said. NO WAY in this world are three other guys INCLUDING THE JUDGE about to let dog D go back out and hunt and win that hunt in that situation. no way.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Has anyone on here ever filed a "formal complaint" ? does anyone on here know anyone personaly that ever filed a formal complaint ? What was the final outcome ? Before Pool ever posted the results if you guys will back up earlier in the thread you'll see what I said. NO WAY in this world are three other guys INCLUDING THE JUDGE about to let dog D go back out and hunt and win that hunt in that situation. no way.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Jason, I get the feeling you don't believe they exist or work. If you want, I am willing to pm you copies of the ones I filed and what came back from UKC.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

I've hunted the last of many nite champion casts alone after the other dogs treed a possom.

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Bill Harper
Washington, NC
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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
I've hunted the last of many nite champion casts alone after the other dogs treed a possom.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

One more thing Jason. Yes the wrong things can happen on a cast. Sometimes they happen with the best of intentions (people didn't know the right way to score it but were not trying to cheat).

What I have found is that if a cast has at least one strong, upstanding member that knows the rules it usually makes those with less than good intentions to behave themselves.

After they try the first thing and that person is able to not only tell them that itsn't the way to score it, but can flip the card over and show them the rule then they usually stop trying to pull things.

In all my hunts I have only had 2 "bad" casts where people were trying to do things contrary to the rules.

There have been some with some disagreement, but only two where I thought someone was actually trying to pull something dishonest. I could have forgotten another one or two, but what I am trying to say is that it is rare and the people that have it happen to them "alot" usually don't have it happen near as much as they think, they just don't understand the rules and don't know why their dog got minused. Not all but by far the biggest majority of the time when I have seen people coming back talking about being cheated that was the root of the problem. They were convinced they were cheated, but in reality they were not they just didn't know or understand the rules.

Most of the time the cast will do the right thing. Even in the case above the three may have been ticked off at their dogs, disappointed or whatever but I bet if someone could show them the rules and be confident enough to know they were right that dog would have hunted by itself the rest of the night because I bet the majority would have realized they were wrong.

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Registered: Sep 2006
Location: Flowery Branch GA
Posts: 729

If the dog comes in after the cast arrives it is given next available tree points and if off game is seen the dog is minused on tree and circle strike points.. In this case dog D would continue the cast alone.. Its not a voting matter its a rule and if the MOH knew what he was talking about he would have over turned the cast and allowed the dog to go hunt.. I would have filed a formal complaint!

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