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dog treed in dozer pile, standing fairly close but no one knew the dozer pile was there sounded treed up. Minus dog because he moved left handed a little bit. Retreed, arriving it is clear the dog went from one side of pile to another. leave minus or undo minus??

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quote:

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Originally posted by JustinM
dog treed in dozer pile, standing fairly close but no one knew the dozer pile was there sounded treed up. Minus dog because he moved left handed a little bit. Retreed, arriving it is clear the dog went from one side of pile to another. leave minus or undo minus??

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Registered: Jun 2003
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Yeah its the same wood pile. Only difference is you heard it. Not see it like we did. Id vote about un minusing about like for obama. NO!! Cept the man done ruled on it here lol. The way I see it on the trees. That coon didn't go up both sets of trees. Something missed. More than likely its the loose tree dog. Just saying.

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Todd has said before in a different place that you can correct an OBVIOUS mistake.

We were talking about babbling and the dog fallin treed two seconds after you minus it for babbling. It was OBVIOUSLY not babbling and you shouldn't penalize a dog when you know for a fact it didn't deserve it.

That does not mean you unminus for something that "could" have happened like the dozer pile.

Allan's ruling is consistant with what UKC has always maintained. You can correct obvious mistakes.

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Allens answer sucks.
Go back and read Dawgs question.

quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Say we are going in to dogs treed. Dogs are split 60 yards apart. I see one dog leave its tree and go to others. I automatically minus it for leaving for 125 cause its treed in first. It goes back to other tree and is handled there. Soon as I put a light in tree. The tree the dog left falls way over and is laying in other tree.. Obviously scored as one tree but I already minused the dog. In my mind it stays minused. Don't matter what it should stay on one tree. I've talked to a lot of others that said no because its scored as one tree. I can kinda see that to if it was only feet apart.

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I think Allen made a correct call on this situation and i dont see where it opens this big can of worms. Sometimes things unfold where we have a chance to do whats right and fair for a dog in a given situation as opposed to the old BAD BREAK better luck next time thing.

I agree with Jim that the call was correct at the time it was made, and i agree with Allen that at the point where we realize a call was made that was incorrect given the information we now have that it should be corrected.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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It is a bad break. Bad break for Dog B that should have moved up for treeing a coon and be way ahead. Instead its got 75 on tree and loosing and didn't do a thing wrong. Anyhow I've saw this happen twice in the last couple months. May never see it again. One time it was handled one way and the other time the other way.

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The decision to score the tree as one has to be made BEFORE shining the tree.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JSTARR
The decision to score the tree as one has to be made BEFORE shining the tree.

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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Say we are going in to dogs treed. Dogs are split 60 yards apart. I see one dog leave its tree and go to others. I automatically minus it for leaving for 125 cause its treed in first. It goes back to other tree and is handled there. Soon as I put a light in tree. The tree the dog left falls way over and is laying in other tree.. Obviously scored as one tree but I already minused the dog. In my mind it stays minused. Don't matter what it should stay on one tree. I've talked to a lot of others that said no because its scored as one tree. I can kinda see that to if it was only feet apart.

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I figured the 60 yards was a typo, pretty hard to imagine 2 trees 60 yards apart touchin at the top unless your in california hunting the giant redwoods.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Rip, the trees were 60 yards apart. The only obvious mistake was on the part of the dog that left one tree and went more than half the length of a football field to another tree. If we don't minus that and keep it minused till hell freezes over, why are we even scoring them?

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Do you think the dog really knew he was treeing the same coon(s) and therefore on the same tree, or did he pull under pressure?

If he puts his nose on the ground between the 2 trees is he minused or just as long as he's stays within a certain distance from the straight line path between the 2 trees it's OK. What is that distance?

Minus that sucker!

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He should be minused according to the original scenario, you made up your mind that it was far enough to be seperate trees when you originally minused him. Like its been stated before you decide if they are together or seperate before you ever start scoring. This same scenario cost me a first place win because I didnt know that at the time.

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I am aware that UKC has ruled that a dog can cover two separate trees (apparently without regard to how far apart they are) if they are scored as one. That kind of nonsense is what has lead to us now being allowed to unminus an obviously correct judges decision.
One bad ruling was bound to lead to another bad ruling. But as always, I'll abide by UKC's rules no matter what I personally think of them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by WEBBER
Do you think the dog really knew he was treeing the same coon(s) and therefore on the same tree, or did he pull under pressure?

If he puts his nose on the ground between the 2 trees is he minused or just as long as he's stays within a certain distance from the straight line path between the 2 trees it's OK. What is that distance?

Minus that sucker!

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Last edited by Rip on 03-13-2012 at 01:08 AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rip


Let me ask you guys that are ready to minus the dog this.

If you walked up on a hole in the ground and seen a dog buried up to his tail in it and you think the other dog that was treed there is gone. You minus that other dog then when the handler pulls the first dog out of the hole low and behold out pops the dog you thought was gone. Would you still minus that dog? It was obvious you were wrong so to do so would be wrong or would you just say "well he's minused he stays minused even though he was here all along".

Just answerer that question. Would you keep him minused after he come out of the hole or not?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
Doesn't matter if he puts his nose down or not. No rule that says a dog that puts its nose down is minused. Todd Kellum himself said that. That is just as much a made up rule as "canopy of the tree" rule is. It's just on separate sides. One side makes up the rule to minus a dog and the other side makes it up to protect a dog. There is no canopy of the tree and a dog is not automatically minused for putting it's nose down going back to a tree.

Neither is a rule.

Let me ask you guys that are ready to minus the dog this.

If you walked up on a hole in the ground and seen a dog buried up to his tail in it and you think the other dog that was treed there is gone. You minus that other dog then when the handler pulls the first dog out of the hole low and behold out pops the dog you thought was gone. Would you still minus that dog? It was obvious you were wrong so to do so would be wrong or would you just say "well he's minused he stays minused even though he was here all along".

Just answerer that question. Would you keep him minused after he come out of the hole or not?

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A better question might be if we have a split tree situation where the trees are joined at the top only a few feet apart and we have a dog bouncing back and forth between the two are we going to minus the dog for moving? of course not. so once you determine that two trees are going to be scored as one in order to be consistent you have to decide are they moving or not.

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You guys can continue to change the situation to make your position right. No problem. 60 feet, 60 yards, whichever, that ain't one tree and to say a dog can cover two trees that far apart perverts the rules. Carry on.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
Doesn't matter if he puts his nose down or not. No rule that says a dog that puts its nose down is minused. Todd Kellum himself said that. That is just as much a made up rule as "canopy of the tree" rule is. It's just on separate sides. One side makes up the rule to minus a dog and the other side makes it up to protect a dog. There is no canopy of the tree and a dog is not automatically minused for putting it's nose down going back to a tree.

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quote:

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Originally posted by WEBBER
I agree, hence my smiley face. I get a big laugh every time I hear "the dog put his nose down - minus him". I was trying to make a point. I guess I wasn't clear, neither was GADAWG about what dog A done when he left the tree and went to the other.
All he could tell from 100 yards out is the dog ( I guess he seen the collar's light) was leave the tree and ended up on the other. So let me ask you foks that want to plus this dog. If you were going into the tree (only one tree, one trunk at the bottom and one top not touching another) as DAWG was and seen 1 of the 3 dogs move from the tree 30 yards away, not to meet and greet, but left the tree and then came back would you plus his points if the coon was seen.

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I'll minus one. How is anybody to know its one tree. When a dogs moving that's supposed to be treed. It should stay treed! I can always go back and change it but if I go in and here comes this dog from the side. Smells up tree barking and runs back to its tree. Im putting the - to it. Also the answer I got in the other Kc which it was. Was not the same answer as I got here.

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