Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Benton, KY
Posts: 711

It may appear that a dog using the wind to locate a coon is guessing, but that is the way it starts. If they learn to use the trait, you might notice they also use sight to be deadly accurate. You will notice that they are on side of tree that you find the coon, saves time shining .

Hey Rip - Look for a dog coming out of Nocturnal Skipper if you would like to find another, he came out of them and threw them also !

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D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
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Last edited by Glenn Wells on 08-04-2011 at 12:39 AM

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Location: PA
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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1

Some guys "claim" that there dog can tree a coon without it even being on the ground by the wind scent pattern. I however do not believe that. They say thats laying up a coon.

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Mine would draw 500 minuss on one coon.LOL Because he doesn't walk around on his hind legs that much. He liable to be standing up on anything and moving around. A tree to a sapling snag but be treeing over his shoulder looking in the direction he is smelling. I don't worry about it. I have learned to look where he does. If he winds it he will make an attempt to locate by tree sniffing several trunks where he thinks the coon might be but if unsuccessful, he will go back to winding treeing. It's easy for me to tell if a dog is treeing up a tree he is standing on or not. Seems like it would be easy for anybody. Probably still draw all kinds of minus though. LOL
By the way a winded layup is not when a dog has opened on a track. Some people might think it a silent dog, as it is, on that track. Kill that coon and send him on and he's liable to be wide open on the next coon. A silent dog is silent on almost every tract all of the time. Maybe just a yip or two if he sees it going up.

Last edited by l.lyle on 08-04-2011 at 02:51 AM

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Location: Rodchester, Indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
The real truth of the matter is I don't care how the dog trees a coon as long as when I unsnap that lead it gets treed quick and it has a coon in the majority of its trees.

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
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intellectualist, has it figured out! I NEVER said a dog cannot wind coon because when coon are moving my female explodes in the box while driving down the road. I think that its amazing. If you pass a coon on the road or in a ditch and the wind is right my female will let you know real quick. I would say she would make one heck of a rig dog.

The point is I have seen dogs wind off of the air and I can assure you they are guessing. Often times sitting under a tree they believe the coon is up not on the tree. I have hunted with world hunt winners, PKC platinum champions and everything in between and laying up coon off of the air waves is not something they did.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
intellectualist, has it figured out! I NEVER said a dog cannot wind coon because when coon are moving my female explodes in the box while driving down the road. I think that its amazing. If you pass a coon on the road or in a ditch and the wind is right my female will let you know real quick. I would say she would make one heck of a rig dog.

The point is I have seen dogs wind off of the air and I can assure you they are guessing. Often times sitting under a tree they believe the coon is up not on the tree. I have hunted with world hunt winners, PKC platinum champions and everything in between and laying up coon off of the air waves is not something they did.

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On the hunts you might not have seen it, but it could have been there. There are a few that wind real good but they also learn to use their eyes to become deadly accurate, those are the special ones ! One that does that can fool about anybody at any given time. A true layup dog may be wide open on track, but when conditions are right he will bust in and lockdown on the tree, never putting his head down or slowing!

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D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Lumpkin, Ga
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Ay yes... the layup controversy again! Yes, some dogs do tree them from the air currents alone. And yes it is in the blood! Not Taught or learned. Oh, I don't know how to determine how long it's been since one was on the ground. That was the question wasn't it?

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Johnny Williams

Last edited by Bluedogman on 08-04-2011 at 02:21 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
I have seen her tree coons from on top of a bluff looking straight at the coon just on air currents and she had NEVE been to the bottom of the bluff to the tree the coon wet up. She came across it on wind currents from the top and treed it that way.

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You would + her on track and tree ! Bad thing is a dog hunting the wind will go high and come down, makeing you climb every step of the way ! Cold days they hunt bottoms when currents travel down, just stay away from hills if you don't like climbing.

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D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
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quote:

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Originally posted by Glenn Wells
You would + her on track and tree ! Bad thing is a dog hunting the wind will go high and come down, makeing you climb every step of the way ! Cold days they hunt bottoms when currents travel down, just stay away from hills if you don't like climbing.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: The driftless area
Posts: 1429

True lay~up dogs are pretty much the 99% accurate models. All I've had or been around have been on the wood. Actually never had one myself that sat off the tree except maybe in extremely rare cases. A tree grabbin, slick treein model, is just that,a slick treein idiot with a genetic issue. Experience helps one understand these things as well as not usin a blind eye.

Some of the squirrel dog types may use their eye's but I've not seen that except on full moon kinda nights & only one like that.That dog would get a squirrel nest here & there. Not sayin it don't happen, I just have not experienced it much.

Hoosier,great thing about this hobby is there is always room for improvement "&" most deffinatly new things to learn every day. I know I do. You may have it all figured out but I have been a student & always will be ~ "With both eye's open lookin down the road"!

The deer analogy above is the same gig as with "SOME" hounds. Lord knows I've spent enough & tried plenty to beat a Whitetails nose. Winding & thermal workin is the same in Elk,Mule deer,Pronghorns,Wolves,Coyotes,Dingo's,Tigers & Bears {OH MY},Fox,mountain kitty's........ You get the picture, "I THINK"?

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Last edited by Two Toes on 08-04-2011 at 03:51 PM

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Is a lay up expert born or can it be made? I'll tell you what accidentally happened with mine. I was letting a 3 to 4 month old pup chase a coontail I had tied to a canepole. I'd snap him up and lay a short drag , rub the tail good on the side of a tree and hang it up. Of course the rest of the dogs were having a fit in the pens. I put him up and decided to get that coon smell away from the kennel. A little way behind my backdoor is some 8 foot tall blueberry bushes so I layed the pole on the top and went on in. About midnight a dog woke me up. That pup had got out of his pen and was treeing that coontail as pretty as you want. I did not drag the tail to the bush, the only way he found it was by winding it. I know that 8 feet high is not much but it might have put the notion in his head. OR maybe he was just born to do it?

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l.lyle, Some claim it can be trained in them but I'm of the way of thinkin they come outa the mold with that ability otherwise they'd be thick as flea's.

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"Quality not Quantity & hunt what you breed"~"IF you don't, please don't breed what you "DON'T" hunt" ~"If their not good enough for you they sure as tootin ain't good 'nuff for us" ~

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Location: North GA
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quote:

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Originally posted by l.lyle
Is a lay up expert born or can it be made? I'll tell you what accidentally happened with mine. I was letting a 3 to 4 month old pup chase a coontail I had tied to a canepole. I'd snap him up and lay a short drag , rub the tail good on the side of a tree and hang it up. Of course the rest of the dogs were having a fit in the pens. I put him up and decided to get that coon smell away from the kennel. A little way behind my backdoor is some 8 foot tall blueberry bushes so I layed the pole on the top and went on in. About midnight a dog woke me up. That pup had got out of his pen and was treeing that coontail as pretty as you want. I did not drag the tail to the bush, the only way he found it was by winding it. I know that 8 feet high is not much but it might have put the notion in his head. OR maybe he was just born to do it?

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Michael Ghorley

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My guess just by observation 12 or 13!

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Johnny Williams

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
So Glenn if a coon is in a tree just a few over from the one my dog was on I can tell the judge that my vote is to plus it because my dog was looking dead at that coon and was just treeing it off the wind?

Come on now Glenn! Guys have a hard enough time getting trees plussed unless their dog is bearhugged on the tree when the cast gets in there.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bluedogman
My guess just by observation 12 or 13!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
LOL if i'm 12 or 13 I have forgotten more then most hunters will learn in their lifetime.

Say what you want. I have NEVER seen a dog lay up a coon by air scent alone, therefore I don't believe it can be done. Once I have seen a single dog do it I will eat my words.

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I`ve had two dogs that can flatout wind a coon off of thermals both are out of Skuna River Fred so I also beleive it is a genetic trait!!!they both would stick there heads in the air head strait to a tree and fall treed the one I lost at a young age could smell one a cross a field several hundred yards away and jus fall treed no mouth on the ground!!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I have forgotten more then most hunters will learn in their lifetime.

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This pretty much tells a story in itself!

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Johnny Williams

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
LOL if i'm 12 or 13 I have forgotten more then most hunters will learn in their lifetime.

Say what you want. I have NEVER seen a dog lay up a coon by air scent alone, therefore I don't believe it can be done. Once I have seen a single dog do it I will eat my words.

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Last edited by intellectualist on 08-04-2011 at 11:34 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by GOING DEEP
I myself think there are two deffinitions to a layup coon there are the old tracks that lead a dog to a tree where u find a coon balled up sleepin in a big fork generally not very high up. Then u have them coon been up there so long there is no track to run and the dog has head in the air dancen on their toes locating and treein off the thermals in the air as Russ descibes. once a guy has had a few of these types of dogs he won't be happy with one that cant tree them ol'layup coons

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bluedogman
This pretty much tells a story in itself!

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Haven't we been over this tune before? I know everything, you know everything and everyone that has replied to this thread knows it all. Heck id go as far to say that everyone on here knows it all. We all can disagree but I would rather disagree with an ol coonhunter then a tree hugger any day. Even if he does hunt blue dogs or black dogs

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
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Well I don't know about the last part of that statement. LOL....

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