Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

quote:

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Originally posted by Hopkins/Lipper
.......................................
Josh you are coming at me from all sides..LOL... Are refering to the same Lipper dogs that for years have accused of running off game because most dogs would squeel and yelp trying to keep up. So most guys thought it was off game when in actuality it was a coon being run like it should be run. Are you saying that Lipper dogs lack track speed ? Man that is a first..have you hunted with many Lipper dogs ?

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2005

here we go again with the lipper crap, trash running dogs and they get all this credit LOL, like what you like i guess

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Sunnyvale Texas
Posts: 784

quote:

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Originally posted by josh
Tom, All Im saying is that Lipper already has had a bigger impact{good or bad} on the walker breed than any other dog ever has or ever will.

The dogs we have today are a direct result of that impact....If they lack track speed.......Well....

Are you trying to tell me Lipper dogs dont tend to run on the trashy side?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

quote:

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Originally posted by Hopkins/Lipper
Some did and the ones that did were good at it and did not lack track speed.

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

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I would say that is generally true.... but then again, its true of any dog of any breeding.

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Registered: Apr 2010
Location:
Posts: 835

I want a dog that can go out at the end of season and get the hard coon. No Complaints about weather ice ect. Finley River dogs did a great job in the 1970's hunting with my dad and now that I am back hunting after leaving it for 28 years. I am not seeing that kind of dog. Lots of go deep hot tracks and solitary hunters that win Competions. It seems to me that most walkers I see are too hot nosed and i don't see people training dogs to get layup coon there is a way to do it. When starting pups. I am a minority when it comes to hunting though as my partner and I still walk with our dogs and dogs hunt with us and we have no buckets out, nor do we run coon when babies are small. I would like to see some older style walkers myself that work tracks together helping each other. Driving a track. Abad hunt is always better than good day at work.

Jeff

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Nance, Bawlie, and Sailor breed dogs have a long history of running a track to catch, but I agree that trait can be found in many lines today.

The problem is many breeders no longer select their breeding choices based on that trait. Luckily, some still do.

I have heard all the arguments about the stop watch dogs that win hunts, but give me those same stop watch dogs late in August or in January, February, or March. I will show you why a good cold-nosed running to catch drifting style hound will prevail in those hunts.

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Purvis, Mississippi
Posts: 202

quote:

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Originally posted by ahinsch
Brandonf, i'd like to know what strains you have hunted that won't get past 200yds? Not trying to start anything, i'm just curious because I haven't seen it in any Walkers i've hunted with. I've seen some piss poor redbones that won't get past 150yds, but not walkers!

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 83

in walkers i would be going with a wipeout hound if i was looking for a track driver hunted with alot of em and they all was good track drivers some where a little slow to tree but the coon was there they start out kinda junky not real bad as far as the lipper bred dogs go i've had several and honestly they where way to junky and way to much mouth for me

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Yazoo City, Mississippi
Posts: 427

quote:

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Originally posted by brandonf
Which dogs do yall think still produce COLD nosed track driving walkers? I have been hunting with alot of stuff out of the stud dogs today that just can not work a cold track... They look like a million bucks on a hot track but they wont work an old track. Most of them wont even go deep to find a hot track. they work an area close about 200 to 250 yards average and come back when they cant find a coon... Some people may say its from feeder buckets but these dogs are not being hunted on buckets... I think we are breeding the noses out of our dogs... What do yall think? Who do yall think still puts a cold nose on there pups?

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Yazoo City, Mississippi
Posts: 427

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim Hill
i have a nailor and sackett breed dog that can run some of the crappiest tracks ive ever seen and then other nights pull up a lay up coon, cant go wrong with sackett jr or nailor blood flowin threw them

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Tom - trying to send you a PM, but your Inbox is full?

David Schmidt

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Location:
Posts: 560

Guys why all the fussing i bet yall havent looked at your papers lately because these hounds yall are talking about are pretty much every where you look. OL' CUTTER and his pups can drive them like they own them. OOPS he is a sackett lipper dog... LOL..

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Northwest Mississippi
Posts: 774

Got a great grandson of lipper (out of Skuna River Bark) thats got a very above average nose. You can cut him loose at 1:00 am on a frosty january night and he will get it done. I absolutely love listening to him run a cold track. He moves it with such ease at a good speed. There ain't nothing like hearing him bawlin' in the distance on a crispy cold winter night... man, I already can't wait for winter just thinking about it....

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Purvis, Mississippi
Posts: 202

this sunday 5/29 me an tom hopkins will be trying a cross that should make a cold nosed track driving freak!!!lol

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1728

Good track dogs come from various lines of Walkers. I got track driving dogs from crossing Lipper on a Dual Gr. Ch. Finley River Dan3 line bred female more than 25 years ago. The Rambler line of dogs come from that cross. Kirk Swanson owned Rambler when he bred the majority of the females. Rambler's sire was Durbin's Ol' Factory from out in SE Kansas. Ask anybody out there about his speed-- hot or cold. Call Kirk about Rambler's speed. I have kept it going with Lill, her daughter, and granddaughter. Trackman is no accident. He has Gr. Nt. Ch. Finley River Dan, 4 times in 4 generations. Cross back on Dan3 bred females with Lipper in there and see what you get. I am not jealous of anybody's breeding program. I am as much of a Finley River man as any, but when it was time for an outcross, Lipper was my choice. Track speed, nose, over powering mouth, confirmation, accurate, loud, pressure tree dog. What more do you want from a stud dog?


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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 582

Competition hunts have dramatically changed the traits and characteristics of all breeds of hounds over the past 30 years. I started in English dogs 32 years ago and the types of dogs I had back then weren't close to the English dogs of today. Same is true for many of the Walker strains.

Back in the 70's & 80's fur was selling and coon weren't as thick as they are today in many parts of the country. Nite hunts were 3 hours long, the minus points were 100 less than today and NOBODY I knew ran dogs off of feeder buckets. In those days dogs had to have a good cold nose to find, run and tree coon especially late season.

Today fur isn't popular and isn't selling, there are a lot more coon in many states, the hunts are 1-2 hours shorter, dogs are hotter nosed, have better treeing instincts and are less trashy compared to dogs 25+ years ago. There are still people breeding cold nosed dogs that can move a track and a lot of big game strains still have those traits but that isn't what the majority of competition hunters want these days. The game has changed and to be competative in the nite hunts most breeds have evolved (some dramatically) from what they were years ago.

I like a dog that can work a cold track as well as anyone IF they can move it fast and get treed, but it's annoying to have a dog beat and bang on a feeder track in a 2 hour nite hunt and use up most of the time. It's also annoying to walk to slick tree after slick tree because the dog doesn't have enough nose and sense to find the end of a track.

In the Walker lines I've found the best noses and tracking ability in the House, Nance, Finley River, Bozo/Clover lines but some of those line have some other traits/quirks that I wasn't crazy about. I like a BALANCED dog but it seems to be harder and harder to find these days.

Last edited by MikeR on 06-14-2011 at 01:21 PM

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

At some Point you have too Go back and Add the Nose back in ..
Using the Source of the "Nose Power"

Having Lots of Nose power does'nt mean you have to Loose Speed ..



Todays Treeing walkers have a Ton of Game Drive to Catch and Tree but Thru Breeding after Breeding their may be a Loss of the Size of the Orifactory System .. Treeing walkers are made up of lots of breeds as breeding goes on Genetics tend to Seperate and revert back to Strain the Created the breed and Some have Alot less Nose then it takes to Track and Tree Game .. Swine are a Prime Example of just how Quickly the Make-up Genetics can Revert all the way back to their Org.

This is a 1958 Artical on How the Treeing Walker Breed Begain "Writen By the Treeing Walker Assoc."

You will Read the Additional Nose was Added to The Org. Foxhounds Used .. Who Says it isn't time to Add it back in ?? With certinty ..

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Carrabelle,Florida
Posts: 152

quote:

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Originally posted by brandonf
I hope that was a joke! Pick up the magazine and i can guarantee most couldnt work an old track if there life depended on it.
I think thats part of the reason for all the slick treeing... LACK of nose

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Registered: Apr 2010
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Posts: 835

Gentlemen, thinks for all the info. I am like the guy from Maryland. That 1970's early 1980's dog will still win hunts. We never had trashy dogs but did not hunt them with any either. I sure miss those dogs back then and the times. I don't bash anybody's dogs, we are just talking about our likes in dogs and what we don't like. Everybody is different when it comes to that. Just like i don't care what brand of dog it is. A coon dog is a coon dog.

Have a good day, Jeff

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Registered: Jun 2009
Location: W. Iowa
Posts: 47

I followed the old Merchants Banjo X Finley River bread hounds for yrs & had the hard stay put tree dog, track driving cold nose hounds with a head full of brains. sure wish I still had them didn't have to worry about trash prob with them, or could clone old Trinity or Knot Head. jmo

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Registered: Apr 2010
Location:
Posts: 835

You find some like that let me know please. I like the way you think. Coon dogs that you didn't have to take out all time. Good Consistant dogs.

Jeff

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
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quote:

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Originally posted by Hokieman
LOL good one but wonder how many of them studs are actual coon dogs or feeder bucket dogs?

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Location: USA
Posts: 698

When they stared to put more importance on the tree 125 vs 100 for the track than breeding for track lost value and breeding for tree gained and than you got other hunts who came in to being were treeing a raccoon did not even matter than what mattered about track dogs and tree got even less important than put in the factor of everyone wanted a dog to get treed by it self get deep and get treed you than lost a lot of sensible handling dogs shorted the hunts from 3 hours to 2 with all kinds of time outs to keep a dog from getting any minus or having to pack back in to a dog and some hunts only a hour you now have a stop watch dog instead of a coon dog not to mention all of the bucket champions you have how many would still get it done if they still had to work for it there are still good dogs out there who are hunted like a real a coon hound you just have to get out and look for them and those are the ones you need to breed to the ones who takes there tracks as they find them hot or cold and tree em with the coon in the tree most of today's rules in today are made to cover weakness in today's hound just like the 1 minute babble rule ok sorry off my soap box

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Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

I read about them, i hear about them, everyone claims to have one. Funny though when i gp to a hunt every cast seems to have a couple quick strike dogs that run the track about a hundred yards and pull up short, blow the top outa the tree and everyone in the cast knows darn well they dont have the coon. Spend half of the hunt time shining empty trees while the coondog in the cast is out of pocket finishing those tracks, but its impossible to hear them over those great tree dogs.
There i feel better now.

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Purvis, Mississippi
Posts: 202

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I read about them, i hear about them, everyone claims to have one. Funny though when i gp to a hunt every cast seems to have a couple quick strike dogs that run the track about a hundred yards and pull up short, blow the top outa the tree and everyone in the cast knows darn well they dont have the coon. Spend half of the hunt time shining empty trees while the coondog in the cast is out of pocket finishing those tracks, but its impossible to hear them over those great tree dogs.
There i feel better now.

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