Registered: Feb 2010
Location: Carson City, MI
Posts: 256

don't pay it if you don't want to. I don't pay that kind of money for pups. However, it takes some serious coin to 1.buy or breed (time) a well-bred proven hound that is a proven reproducer
2.feed, maintain health, and shelter that reproducer
3.continue to do 1 and 2 until you get a reputation for success or can risk offering a guarantee on that pup. Shoot, I've been keeping track of mileage, shots, feed, gear, etc. on two young dogs I am working with and it averages about a $100 a month each and I haven't even started going to hunts with them and paying entry fees and mileage on that. Whew, if you aren't going to allow people to ask what they feel they need to sell a pup then all you have left are rich people with an expensive hobby. No problem with that but I'm glad that there are some out there that are just wanting to keep the breed strong and hopefully break even so they don't have to get out.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 223

I know what its like to win breeder's races, have dogs in the top of the ukc reproducers list, sell 18 month old pups turning the crank for big money and yada, yada, yada. So I do know what I am talking about. And no its not luck as in breeding any ole dog to any ole dog, its being lucky enough to happen upon a great reproducing female or making the once in a lifetime cross.
It dont happen everyday. So you happen upon a good reproducer and you try to select a stud that will compliment them. So it certainly is not entirely blind luck. It does take some knowledge of what you like and are looking for in a pup.
The key is getting them to good hunters. That is the hard part.
There is nothing wrong with selling pups for big money. You cant sell pups for 200$ each and make anything, you will likely loose money. I guess thats the my poind, Im not trying to make any money.
I dont have to give anything away, just prefer to get pups in peoples hands that actually know how to train one or actually will hunt one. Most dont have a clue. So when I say give them away, its only to select individuals. And you are only as good of a breeder as your females is as a reproducer and the hunters that are getting the pups. You get a good reproducer and get pups to the right people and you are set. Now that is the truth.

Last edited by OLIVER JACKSON on 05-20-2011 at 06:38 PM

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Registered: Apr 2011
Location: central Pennsylvania
Posts: 272

Getting pups to people who hunt them is the hardest part of coonhunting, Even when you know that the cross you have between Dam and Sire is a good cross, but just because the dam and sire dosn't have nite hunting titles dose not mean that the dogs don't hunt.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: jacksonville, nc
Posts: 2856

any of you big time breeders that want to give me a high bred female puppy i'll take it and hunt the hair off her. and we can make a deal on what to do later. i don't competition hunt though. i've paid $150.00 to ..250.00 for all my so called hunting dogs. so far that hasn't worked out so well. i'm ready to try a free puppy.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 223

One thing I would like to say is, if you are planning on selling a good started pup, it is important to have something out of a well known stud. The real good ones will sale no matter what they are out of, but these are few and far between. Travis Brown has done really well with his dogs. I like his breeding and love the Harry dogs. And I bet he would agree that Little Peg got him started off. There are 500 others that have bred to Harry. Not all of them crosses were world class. What made Travis' cross so successful, his female and getting that first cross into the right hands. So pups are worth what ever you can sell them for. I would rather have one from a known stud and a top reproducing female, I just know how much of a long shot it can sometimes can be. There is a lot of difference in a pup from a KNOWN TOP REPRODUCING FEMALE and a pup from the two well known dogs. I guess that is the difference. Travis has earned his prices because he has the proof. But many others annoint their crosses as world class and that just has not been proven yet. Just because its all grand or all platinum means nothing yet until its proven.

Last edited by OLIVER JACKSON on 05-20-2011 at 06:36 PM

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 223

Not many once in a lifetime hounds out there.

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Registered: May 2011
Location: MONROE,N.C.
Posts: 11

WE BRED OUR GYP IT ACTUALLY COST WAY MORE THAN YOU THINK.
$300-STUD FEE
$300-GAS TEN HOUR DRIVE ONE WAY STILL CHEAPER THAN A.I.
S.S.,PERFORMANCE,AKC..ALL THESE PAPERS COST MONEY THEN RAISING THE PUPS TO 8 WEEKS OLD,$5 per puppy shot they get 2 shots each before they leave then wormer.we had over a grand in a litter of pups.not to mention the work in it,i dont see how you guys can raise pups cheap unless you have the stud and the gyp with no papers no medicine givin.

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Registered: Jul 2011
Location: Selmer Tn
Posts: 626

A puppy is worth what you are willing to sell it for as long as somebody sees the same value in the pup. There are high dollar pups and there are free ones, and the funny thing is that sometimes the free ones come from the high dollar litter. If i had a litter of pups and someone was willing to purchase one for a lot of money I would sell it to him, but I could also give a puppy away out of the same litter.

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Anderson co Tennessee
Posts: 1944

conversation i all ways have is papers dont tree coons ..and i will agree but if iam going to start at the puppy stage imo i want something that has some foundation that i can build on.so my hats off to the ones that take the time to research what to breed to not just any stud or gyp down the road ..

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

Sometimes a $iooo is cheap. But it better be a proven cross of two proven individuals.

Compare the cost of raising and training two or three $250 dollar pups to a year old, maybe 60 days of hunting them to find out they are culls and all of a sudden a grand dont sound so bad.
The trick is knowing what you want and where to go to get it.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 1586

There are pups out there for cheaper. If you don't like the price, don't pay it.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: N.E.Tn
Posts: 111

Back 20 to 30 yrs. ago I used to sell pups with a gaurante that if they did not suit you at 1 yr.old I`d buy it back if in good health & not shyor skittish.only got 2 pups back.not saying they all made coondogs I dont know .Just that I only got 2 back & 1 of them went on to make a pretty nice dog. most of the hard work was done just needed a little more time.And I got 150 for those pups 20 to 30 yrs.ago I can see where inflation may make it harder to sell them at that price now.but I sold a litter 2 yrs.ago for 150.first litter I had raised in over 15 yrs.& the last.

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Registered: Apr 2011
Location: EAST TN
Posts: 199

wonder how much the lipper and jane pups went for??

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Registered: Jun 2010
Location:
Posts: 37

Alot of the so called TOP notch breeders are nothing more than puppy mills! I wouldnt waste my money on some of the junk getting bred and there are a few guys wasting good semen on JUNK!

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Registered: Jun 2010
Location:
Posts: 37

quote:

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Originally posted by ghosthunter50
wonder how much the lipper and jane pups went for??

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Medford, WI
Posts: 3312

I see where you guys are saying that the prices are out of hand, which I do agree with, but if you think about it, any competition breeder wants these pups to get into hand of people that will raise, train and promote them, correct?
well I know that I am more willing to cull a dog that I paid $150 for compared to if I paid $800, I personally, will not promote a dog that isn't better than my last dog, even if they are a very nice dog. I have had a few that could tree coons, and look pretty good doing it, but I just didn't think they were competition dogs, they are still my hide dogs and I still have one of them, but they just don't have that competition drive. Yes I even had one bred, and I think that the cross may have worked, I have one that is 13 months old and about 2 steps from competition ready, he prolly wont hit the hunts till he is 3 though just because I want to make sure he is EXACTLY what I want for my comp dog, he is nice and an "off breed" as many would say.
I guess the way I look at it, is you can go many different ways to get your pups into the right hands, I don't personally ask a boat load of cash for my pups, but it is one way to make sure people that are willing to put the time and effort into them get them. I personally find people that I know will give them the time and effort they deserve (like people that don't have many dogs, someone who's kid wants to get into hunting, or even if my pups go back to a certain bloodline, calling up that past breeder and asking him or her if they want a pup for free) I think the most I have ever asked for an 8 week old pup was $200 and let a pair go for $350. I am also a breeder that say will help rehome the pups if needed or in extreme circumstances, buy the pup back but I wont pay more than a $100 more than what they bought the pup for...
I just see it as a breeder trying to make sure that the pup is getting into the hands of someone that will give it the right amount of time, the most I have ever paid for a pup was... $300 and I sold it for $150 to a guy nearby that wanted a pup to start because his one other dog was getting older. it all depends on the breeder and if they are willing to try to find good homes for the pups or wait for good homes to find them, but then again there are some breeders just in it for the money.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 223

A LOT OF GOOD COMMENTS AND PERSPECTIVES

You don't see anyone guaranteeing these 1000$ pups.......

The best way to make sure they get hunted right is place them with someone that values you dogs and are good trainers and keep one for yourself.

It is costly raising them and using the frozen semen etc. I have done all of that.

But to anoint a cross that has never been made or had been made but the others are still too young to really prove something is crazy.

It does take time to build a line of dogs. So I do have tremendous respect from those breeders that are keeping and hunting their own stuff. So all of their females are actually dogs they bred, trained and raised.

But pups are worth what someone will pay, I am just not going to do it. Its too much of a long shot and these inflated prices will come way down when that pup is a year old and still sitting in the pen. lol

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Registered: Apr 2011
Location: EAST TN
Posts: 199

i did get a pup off of jason crites bocephus dog thats in the books last yr at setwd and he guaranteed him. we also have a female out of bo's sire hardwood timber(i think) thats doing pretty good, shes a nice little tree dog,

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: In the timber
Posts: 91

Virgil if its jody your talkin about I'd like to be 1 of the 4

quote:

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Originally posted by Virgil
For those acting like it doesnt cost anything to raise a litter of pups to 6 weeks you must have not raised any pups lately.

I did the math on breeding my female this spring and even with a free stud fee I was going to have around 800$ in the litter by the time they were 6 weeks old. Considering I wanted to keep 2, stud owner wanted one for use as a possible future stud she would have had to had 7 pups, 4 that I could sell for 200$ a piece just to break even.

For people paying the cost of high stud fees, superstaking the pups, performancing the pups, possible cost of AI for semen they probably are lucky to break even at 500 to 700 a pup unless they have 10 or 12 pups to sell.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

Lets be Honest about it, its the super staking and performancing the litter that has the bind on us poor folks. Both the breeders and the stud owners and pup buyers all three alike. Which is just one more thing thats turning this whole sport into a setup where you have one guy thats the head honcho owner. He is the money behind the whole operation. Doesn't hunt. Doesn't touch a leash. Doesn't feed. He has the money and the name and promoting under control. Then you have a whole group of folks that work for him that start the pups, feed the dogs. hunt the dogs and win the hunts. Most of them don't have regular jobs or familys either. They hunt. Period. What you end up with is a very, very succesfull operation and this is the trend how things are heading. One man trying to run a one man show and do it all is already way behind in everything. Especially money if he isn't a rich guy. Try selling a pup that isn't superstaked or performanced. Or out of PR , untitled parents. One guy told me bluntly that he believed my dog would reproduce and he knew how good my dog was but would not breed his female until he was at the very least a nite champion. I hunted him in the hunts and he made nite champion and you know what came next ........ "oh yeah, now you got to superstake and performance him so his pups will be super stake and performance pups". Hundreds of dollars. And not a one time thing. Every year.

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Greene County Ohio
Posts: 1264

My favorite is this....12 months old lightly started will go.with other dogs has opened on track just needs hunted..gonna make a good one..3000.00..people that ask that for a pup or a dog that ain't doing nothing are just as crazy as the ones that pay those prices. I.called.about a.big d pup a while back.that was 8 months.old never.treed.a coon the.woman.wanted.3500.00 for.him cause." He was gonna be a good one"..he may end up being a.good dog but.at that price he.ain't.gonna be.my.dog.lol

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Greene County Ohio
Posts: 1264

I.don't.care.if.the.dog.is.out.of.2 world.champs.that.doesn't.mean the.pups.are.gonna.make.it..paying.1000 bucks.for.a "top bred" hound doesn't guarantee.you.anything. I really think you could bred 2 hounds that never.been in the.woods.and.get.a fantastic.COONDOG.from the liter..its all a.gamble.no.matter.what..no one.has.a.for.sure.formula.but a 1000 dollar pup.has no more.or.no.less of a.chance.to.make.a.COONDOG.than.a.150 dollar pup.in my opinion.

QUOTE]Originally posted by john Duemmer
Sometimes a $iooo is cheap. But it better be a proven cross of two proven individuals.

Compare the cost of raising and training two or three $250 dollar pups to a year old, maybe 60 days of hunting them to find out they are culls and all of a sudden a grand dont sound so bad.
The trick is knowing what you want and where to go to get it. [/QUOTE]

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Greene County Ohio
Posts: 1264

Lol my Dang phone..the keypad is too small and the period button is right next to the space bar

quote:

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Originally posted by prostockpat
why all the periods?... . . . .. . . . . . . . .. . . .

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

quote:

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Originally posted by coonbustin1990
Getting pups to people who hunt them is the hardest part of coonhunting, Even when you know that the cross you have between Dam and Sire is a good cross, but just because the dam and sire dosn't have nite hunting titles dose not mean that the dogs don't hunt.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Yazoo City, Mississippi
Posts: 427

quote:

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Originally posted by trashy creek
Im tired of people saying the rat dogs and sackett bred dogs are tree happy. If you look in bloodlines you will see who the rerproducers are and will notice that the majortiy are sackett bred. yes they may green tree a little but you dopnt gety plus points for green. ukc is not like pkc they dont have to have a winner. And who is the number 1 and number 3 historical reproducer

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