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I agree that delete makes more sense. Circle points may be way down the list of tiebreakers but it is there, circle points CAN win a hunt in UKC. So in all of the situations mentioned, delete seems to me to be the better answer. But in UKC, it would be the WRONG answer.

Many years ago Walker Days was at Columbia City and Allen G was the MOH assigned to the Wyatt satellite club. I turned in a card with some deleted strike points and Allen ask me about them. I explained the situation and he changed all of them on the card. He told me you never delete strike points unless the time stops, the dog is shutout on strike or the dog returns to a previuosly scored tree. It kinda stuck with me.

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Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Jake Prairie, MO
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Actually, I believe that minus would make more sense, but know that it won't be allowed under 5(b). The dog coming into a slick tree after cast arrives is either quitting a track or is a Johnny come lately and needs to be minused just like the other dogs. Can you imagine if the tie breaker process actually came down to circle strike points and this dog won because of these strike points. I'd rather flip a coin.

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Josh Brown
The Barber Shop
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573-205-1391

Last edited by jabrown on 05-20-2010 at 02:20 PM

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Registered: Apr 2010
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To me, it would make a big difference if a dog came in and treed or just came in and gave his handler that stupid look that dogs give you in this type situation. Every situation is different and I'm sure that it would be hard to shape your rules to every situation. I'm not complaining, just curious.

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Josh Brown
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
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Josh, in being consistent with the rule 5(b) you could not minus a dogs strike points for coming into the tree, (even if it blows the top out of it ) handler or otherwise unless a coon is seen.

The only exception to not circling a dogs strike points, who came in after the judge arrived is in two situations:

1) A coon is seen = minus strike points
2) The dog was shut out on that specific tree = has no strike points to circle because they were deleted when that dog came into the tree it was shut out on per Rule 5(g). To clarify further, this would be true regardless of whether or not the dog came into the tree, treed on the tree or simply came into the handler while the cast was still at the tree and was ordered to be handled.

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
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If the judge is at the tree wouldn't the tree have to be closed and all dog be shut out that isn't allready treed in?

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CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
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quote:

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Originally posted by Okie Dawg
If the judge is at the tree wouldn't the tree have to be closed and all dog be shut out that isn't allready treed in?

---

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Michael Ghorley

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
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Ok thanks........

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UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

quote:

---

Originally posted by Okie Dawg
If the judge is at the tree wouldn't the tree have to be closed and all dog be shut out that isn't allready treed in?

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Okie,, the answer is in the definitions...

1.Shutout- is ALWAYS talking about strike points

2. Closed tree-- this is talking about time closed on a tree.

Its important to remember that dogs are never shut out from a tree , the tree is CLOSED and ther either in or out . Its a miss-use of the term shutout.

If you can understand these two definitions , it will help to understand why dogs are circled for coming in late to a slick tree.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of chances to debate this with future judges.

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Registered: May 2009
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quote:

---

Originally posted by longshot
Okie,, the answer is in the definitions...

1.Shutout- is ALWAYS talking about strike points

2. Closed tree-- this is talking about time closed on a tree.

Its important to remember that dogs are never shut out from a tree , the tree is CLOSED and ther either in or out . Its a miss-use of the term shutout.

If you can understand these two definitions , it will help to understand why dogs are circled for coming in late to a slick tree.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of chances to debate this with future judges.

---

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

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Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Jake Prairie, MO
Posts: 757

Thanks, Allen and everyone who is willing to help a person to learn the rules.

I'm no longer confused........I think

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As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Joshua 24:15

Josh Brown
The Barber Shop
Cuba, MO
573-205-1391

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