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quote:

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Originally posted by Adam Whitehead
.......opted to turn into B and C still on track (obviously different track).....

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Larry Atherton

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Actually sir they do NOT have to recast their dog..their dog completed their track and tree.... if you walk for 1 minute away from a tree and the other dogs are on track and get treed...yes you absolutley can walk your dog on a leash to that tree...there are several different ways that you do NOT have to cast your dog after they completed their track and tree. I'll tell you this much maybe it'll be enough a hint for some of ya'll to get what was told to me.....If the judge puts a 30 minute rule on the non working dog....then yes if the handler touches his dog he will be scratched....This dog in particular was casted and came in as we were walking to a tree that was still open but we were plenty far enough away that we walking in the direction to get to the tree. Think about this too......now what say he doesn't handle his dog and the dog gets to tree after it is closed, but is there when judge arrives and coon is seen? same thing but coon is not seen(obviously slick). You see sir, so many people want to scratch dogs and minus dogs when they actually don't know what they are doing.

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You and I must be reading different accounts. This is how I understand the new recasting option. To be able to opt out of recasting the following conditions must ALL be meet.

#1 Dog(s) tree is scored AND
#2 At least 1 dog is treed AND
#3 At least 1 dog is still tracking. All 3 items need to be meet to have the option to recast.

Your description says dogs A & D are treed and scored. B and C are trailing. There is no dog treed at that point (#2). Therefore the option to recast doesn't exist. At that point you must cast dogs A & D after walking the minute and upon hearing either dog B or C open. Unless C & D are treed before the minute is up and then A & D are leash locked because there is no dog trailing (#3).

The reason for the new rule was so that the 1st dog treed wasn't leash locked with dog(s) treed while one was still running track.

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Larry Atherton

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Larry, this guy knows just eough to be dangerous.....

Walk a minute to recast? No such rule in UKC.

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you can't recast to a dog you can't hear. right or wrong?

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You see, people love to scratch or minus dogs when they have no ideal....Just fyi I was wrong too.....Won't be again (about this situation) but I was that time.

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Adam, how many times are you gonna change this scenerio? Go back and read your first post describing this situation. No mention whatsoever of dogs out of hearing. You keep changing your story to support your conclusions. Most MOH's take a dim view of that.

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You can recast to a dog you cant hear. As long as that dog is at large you have the option. 1 dog treed, one dog at large, you have the option.

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Jim, I haven't changed scenarios any sir. Dog B and C were out of hearing before we went to score Dog A and D. We had to get back to a postion (last place we heard B and C) recast A and D. While we getting back there Dog C became treed and called treed. I apologize that wasn't stated clearly. Dog B and C were obviously on different track because where we had heard them before going to score A and D.

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4 dog nite ch cast 4 months ago.

Dogs A, B, C, and D (my dog)

First cut.

Dog A struck followed by dog B but the judge (handler of dog C said that was his dog)

Handler A agreed that he in fact struck the judges dog, I did not know either dog so I could not say either way. They minused dog B 75. Then way right handed another dog opened and it was a odd bark and definatley not my dog. I asked okay whose dog is that? Handler of dog B (teen) said I told you I struck my dog. Judge agreed then un-minused him. Now obviously the judge was the one claiming dog B as his dog was way right handed.

Dog A is treed followed by dog B for 75. They are obviously together. My dog then strikes a little left handed for 25 with a line under it. I treed my dog and wanted him split as I knew he was. The judge said no we will find out when we get in there.

Start in there and dog A is running in the corn fielf beside my dog and is minused 125. Now here is where it begins to get ugly.

Dog B was right handed of ym dog which is where dog A was until it couldn't take the pressure from my dog. They refused to bump me up on tree. I wanted it questioned, I look up the tree, find my coon and they ONLY AWARDED ME 50+. Tell me how that works?

Dog A had came into my tree also and took 100-. I told the judge I was going to walk my dog up and recast him to dog C while they proceeded to score dog B's tree. The judge said NO if you recast youre dog you will be scratched because we have to run the 8 on my dog. Ilaughed and told him how can you run the 8 when there is a dog treed? I told him to question it.

We are scorring dog B's tree and the judge says he is going to walk out in the field and listen for his dog. I told him absolutley no way he is leaving the cast. I was then scratched for arguing with the judge. LMAO. I questioned that as well.

This guy was a royal idiot and as crooked as a bent nail. When I questioned the scratch we had to return o the club of course and I asked the judge to see the scorecard.

On that first cut he minused the boy then erased it but did not minus himself for claiming the boys dog. I laughed and told him how he had no business in a hunt.

The MOH threatened to throw the whole cast out but I requested that we get a non-hunting judge to finish the cast out. He granted it and I went on to get a win toward grand. My dog treed 3 more coon to there dogs 0.

After my dog treed 2 more coon both the other 2 withdrew (Dog A withdrew before going back to the club) The old judge had the nerve to tell me good job and hoped I won it all. Some people amaze me. Theytry to screw you then be youre best friend afterwords.

Last edited by treberta on 04-13-2010 at 07:36 PM

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If dog A, B, C, and D are all struck in....Dog A and D tree.....tree closes and scored.......opted to turn into B and C still on track (obviously different track).....A opens up and is struck in...D never opens.....B and C get treed and called treed....... while walking to tree (walking distance a good ways off)....dog D comes within reach of handler.....can he handle his dog? [/B][/QUOTE]

I have to say that things keep changing from the original. Nothing is said about a dog out of hearing. Even if you do walk to the last place you heard the dogs then you hear them then you recast. Even if one of the dogs still on track comes treed you have the option to recast. Once the option to recast is made then you can't wait for your dog to come back and say you changed your mind and you want to handle it. Sticking to this original scenerio, if he handles dog D, he is scratched. Hunt time is still running, it has not come into a closed tree, timeout has not been called, iterferance has not been called, nor has the handler withdrew the dog. I think that pretty much covers all the times you can handle a dog without being scratched.

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Brian Teague 252-649-3050

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Man ya'll are turning this into all kind of crazy.....I said obviously different track because they were out of hearing....thought that would be enough to explain situation(obviously it wasn't)...Why is Dog D scratched....what is the scratchable offense that has happened here? Dog D was gone out hunting on the recast....never did open up.....no time limit was placed on the dog.....dog was not interffering or being interferred with.....so why would you scratch a dog for being handled while walking to a tree that is going to OBVIOUSLY take you more than 5 minutes to get to and you know you can't have any part of because you will be shut out in just a few minutes. Show me where you can scratch a dog....Allen Gingrech says you can't scratch a dog for such, or at least a few weeks ago you couldn't.

Man I promise ya'll I started this thread to HELP, not argue, not conflict, not be judged by, just wanted to HELP.

I could have just as easy typed the EXACT situation (dog outta hearing and all that) but I thought I give enough info.

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Adam the dog didnt do anything to deserve a scratch, the handler did. Can you imagine if every time a handler wanted to grab his dog there were no consequenses there would be handlers running all over the woods. Example A and B are amoking a deer track and your dog is close enough to grab before he gets tempted LOL. I think maybe you misudterstood Alan.

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This is the way it was answered...Dog D was not holding any position.....Dog D was not on a hunt time (30 minute non working rule).....Went on to further say if the dog had opened at least one time then if he had handled he would be scratched because now he has become an active part of the cast......meaning now if he opens twice more and not declared struck he can be penalized.I personally said that the dog was scratched, but was informed that I was wrong.

Man I sure hope Allen reads all this and answers. I do apologize for not giving the EXACT details, but I don't think it really changes the view anyway.

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John you make a good point, but I believe what you are talking about would be considered encouragement or discouragement, this particular situation there was none of that, just a dog checking back in, and a handler realizing he was very soon going to be shut out.

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nice point mudd....I personally do like reading the different opinions....just look at all the different answers......... has any this helped you? have you ever been in this situation? I respect your opinion, but they are like noses......

I was wrong and will be again and if someone or something is trying to help me....i appreciate that.......maybe some are not so appreciative. The best interest for ME....is to try and help.

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Well, I sure would like to hear this straight from Allen. The dog is loose and the 2 hour count down is running so he is on hunt time. If you can handle a dog like this, that news to me and anyone else I've ever hunted with.

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quote:

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Originally posted by K. Singletary
Well, I sure would like to hear this straight from Allen. The dog is loose and the 2 hour count down is running so he is on hunt time. If you can handle a dog like this, that news to me and anyone else I've ever hunted with.

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i would think there is a lot that has never been heard of, because most that haven't heard, have not taken the time to study the rules and understand the intent of them. Big word here INTENT". Rules are all, every one of them written with intent. Only one INTENT. Interputation? We get a million of those, and most have confused the situation with another KC's interputation, or just plain made their own. Read carefully, analize, and listen to reason, and most will come away with a better understanding of the rules intent. I will even bet, if this was done, the "cheating" MOH's we all complain about so regular, will decline by 50-75%, and find out he/she was right. yes, i know of some instances they were not right, but most cases they were, that i am aware of. in most of the cases, one or more of the cast members was "confused" on the intent.

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Allen didn't tell anybody they can handle there dog while the clock is running just because they want to without getting scratched. I know better. I don't care what this Adam fella says, I have heard that "Allen told me" stuff before.

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Adam, if the dog was handled it's scratched.

Don't give some watered down deluted answer. The dog is scratched. NEVER EVER is a handler allowed to just "handle" his dog unless he has grounds and permission too.

Say youre dog isn't struck in yet and its ehaded right for a road, Are you allowed to just go and handle it then recast it? Not a chance.

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Real simple: NEVER ever cut your dog loose or handle your dog while the clock is running without the judge telling you to or you are gonna get scratched. And i Doubt Allen told this guy otherwise.

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Wow, it isn't good enough that I was wrong too huh....Jim, sir I know what I was told. Now unless you were the 3rd party on the phone, I wish you wouldn't assume you know what you are talking about. I never mean to be negative towards anyone, but you sir have no ideal what I was told....I DO!

You see I said scratch the dog too, but after further thinking and pondering, I could find no reason for the dog to be scratched, and noone else has either, MAYBE that is why Allen said the dog couldn't be scratched. Just because we THINK we are right...does that make us right?

My goodness, this thread has went complete opposite of MY intentions.

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Adam, you are a mistaken individual.

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Opinions are like noses.......

Like myself I was unable to prove myself right when I said scratch the dog. Why has NOONE on this post been able to prove where the dog should be scratched?

Treberta, copy and paste the proof, will you?

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