Registered: Nov 2008
Location: gerry, ny
Posts: 309

I think all these posts should answer your questions,
mick mclaughlin

I knew several of them would be posting a better explanation than I did...
I think they all answered the question pretty darn well if you ask me.
Especially, Maverick061106 , I got to say VERY WELL DONE!!!
well to bring up something here..

Tamarack Kennels - a hunting dog should not be faulted for his hunting scars. He should be looked upon just like the spotless ones by your local club judge...

I don't really care, about winning,.. I care about keeping this sport alive so I love donating money to my clubs even at the bigger events.. As long as I keep loving the sport you will see my hunting hounds on the bench at the bigger events and of course the smaller events.
I love putting the money down and knowing I did my part to keep that club alive and well.. And this sport coming forward into the future. It is not about recognition, trophies, plaques and prizes.. It is about Fellowship and Friends and especially the hounds...
The sport of coon hunting is what my love is along comes the goodies of hounds, friends and fellowship.

__________________
REMEMBER THIS IS MY OPINION!!!! No names were mention. If I offended someone then you must have a guilty conscience.

814-964-9399

RIP
GRNTCH CH 'PR' Cassandras Midnight Jenny

PLOTTS:

Grch 'PR' River Ridge Coo Coo Ca-Choo
Ch'PR' Tamarack's Redwood Secret
Ch'PR' Tamarack's A Shot In The Dark
'PR' Tamarack's DarkSide Ofthe Moon
Ch 'PR' River Ridge Ruby Tuesday

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 3709

quote:

---

Originally posted by rabbit1
I never understood the purpose of the bench shows. Some of the dogs never even make it to the woods. I don't care what a dog looks like it is what it can do in the woods. Sure some of the dogs look great, but a true hunting dog will have nicked ears and a few scratches here and there. These dogs never win on the bench. The dogs that go to a doggi boutique win!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

What difference does it make to you if my dogs compete on the bench, or field trails, or water races, or obedience, or hunts or just lays up on my couch and lets me scratch it's belly as long as you don't have to deal with it? I really don't see what it should matter to anyone else what someone else chooses to do with their dog. I have an "old lady" Walker bitch~ in the kennel right now that can tackle any coon on any night. On the ground or in the water.
And guess what!? She's going to the groomers tomorrow to get ready for a BENEFIT show on Sat. ~Benefit means the moneys collected will be donated to that cause~ and she wins on the bench.......as long as Gerald doesn't bring the Kat dog
I knew I should have stayed off this thread.....

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
Breeding for the future of the Treeing Walker
"God bless the Broken Road"
~A man is only as good as his word~

Proud home to;

'PR' Kentucky River Fly Again (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen)
ACHA CHT x3 Broken Roads Little Texas (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
CH Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Rowdy Lil Miss (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Meabie I will (Lipper's Rooster x Missy)
Broken Roads IMA Boomer2 (UKC NATL GRCH GRNTCH Honest Abe x Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom
~~~~~Watch out!~~~~~
They just might make an IMPACT!

and the girls...Punkin and Tater!

Gone by never forgotten ~ Fly high my beautiful angels
~ GRCH GNTCH PKC SC Toucan Sam
~CH Toucan's Ugly Betty
~ CCH CH Southforks September Rain
~ Martin's Daisy JJ (what a beautiful litter you left behind)
~ Luke, the lab who brought us so many doves and ducks over the years
~ UKC GRCH,ACHA CH 2014 LWCH 2014 2 x's ACHA YOUTH WCH AKC CH AKC CH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen) DNA Profiled ~ Fly high, old friend.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you!"

Last edited by Cleo on 03-24-2010 at 08:05 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: gerry, ny
Posts: 309

I think that everyone is entitled to their opinion..
the saying never gets old
You do what you want and I will do what I want.. That makes us both happy in the long run.

__________________
REMEMBER THIS IS MY OPINION!!!! No names were mention. If I offended someone then you must have a guilty conscience.

814-964-9399

RIP
GRNTCH CH 'PR' Cassandras Midnight Jenny

PLOTTS:

Grch 'PR' River Ridge Coo Coo Ca-Choo
Ch'PR' Tamarack's Redwood Secret
Ch'PR' Tamarack's A Shot In The Dark
'PR' Tamarack's DarkSide Ofthe Moon
Ch 'PR' River Ridge Ruby Tuesday

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cleo
Because we like it!


NUFF said.....

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: silver lake
Posts: 1505

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
To keep the women out of the woods and in the clubhouse.

---

__________________
TREEPICKING KENNELS !!

HOME OF "" GR.CH. TREEPICKING MAGIC MAN
http://wmagicwebb.tripod.com Lots of us have the right Aim in life ,but most of us run out of ammunition ROGER & DORIS WEBB

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2009
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 127

In answer to the folks who ask why it concerns me, here ya go.....

Poodles were once retrievers

Irish Setters were once bird dogs

redbones were once coonhounds

Yes you can still find a few quality hunting redbones, but for everyone you want to point out to me, I can point out ten that are only shown on the bench;

OR

the dog is either single registered or has single registered dogs up close in it's pedigree.

I suppose bench shows are ok, but anytime anything other then ability comes into breeding a hunting dog, it is not for the betterment of the breed.

If you enjoy showin dogs, and not hunting, I really do not mean to offend you, but I really do think there are enough lap dogs in this world.

And give me a break on the confirmation thing, any dog that can hold up to be hunted 300 nights a year is going to have good enough confirmation.

__________________
Faugh A Ballaugh

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2007
Location:
Posts: 366

quote:

---

Originally posted by mick mclaughlin
any dog that can hold up to be hunted 300 nights a year is going to have good enough confirmation.

---

__________________
'PR'Maverick's Smoke 'n Moonshine (two 1st place wins towards NITECH)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 3709

Can you imagine the feeling of that same hound winning the bench show right before you hunt him and win?

Just wondering how you thing we keep our "show" hounds fit and in shape with the proper muscle tone?

Do you think they look like that from jumping on and off the bench?

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
Breeding for the future of the Treeing Walker
"God bless the Broken Road"
~A man is only as good as his word~

Proud home to;

'PR' Kentucky River Fly Again (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen)
ACHA CHT x3 Broken Roads Little Texas (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
CH Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Rowdy Lil Miss (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Meabie I will (Lipper's Rooster x Missy)
Broken Roads IMA Boomer2 (UKC NATL GRCH GRNTCH Honest Abe x Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom
~~~~~Watch out!~~~~~
They just might make an IMPACT!

and the girls...Punkin and Tater!

Gone by never forgotten ~ Fly high my beautiful angels
~ GRCH GNTCH PKC SC Toucan Sam
~CH Toucan's Ugly Betty
~ CCH CH Southforks September Rain
~ Martin's Daisy JJ (what a beautiful litter you left behind)
~ Luke, the lab who brought us so many doves and ducks over the years
~ UKC GRCH,ACHA CH 2014 LWCH 2014 2 x's ACHA YOUTH WCH AKC CH AKC CH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen) DNA Profiled ~ Fly high, old friend.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you!"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2006
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1344

I had a little female at the house that was a tough little cat dog.. She started cranking hard at 8 months old and was leading a few races at that young age.. A natural.. They don't start much better then she did.. And she continued to get better and better..

9 out of 10 hunters would probably bred this little female.. I won't.. She has NASTY conformation and it was already showing up and effecting her performance in her second season out.. She could NOT win on a bench.. She will have NO part in what I breed.. She has bad feet, bad chest and bad legs..

You want to see how important conformation is.. take your dogs up and bear hunt them 4 to 7 days a week... then roll them right into cat season 4 to 7 days a week.. Then coon hunt them in the "off" season.. They hunt year round.. Bears and cats are harder on a dog then a coon race.. You will see how important conformation is and why the "if it catches a coon, it doesn't matter what it looks like" saying gets old..

They should be hunted, bench show dog or not.. They don't need to be titled.. But they need to be the whole package..

__________________
~Melanie Hampton~
OutWest Big Game Hounds

You've only got 3 choices in life, give in, give up, or give it all you got.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oak Grove,Ark
Posts: 597

I have Raised lots of pups and sold them or gave them to kids. I have raised as many winners as anyone in both hunts and shows. I hunt hard and take great pride in raising dual purpose hounds.
You let one of the few people that say they don't care what a dog looks like come to your place to pick a pup, and they will pick the best looking pup every time. Most of them figure out that it don't cost any more to feed a good looking hound than it does an ugly one.
If you really believe they have to be ugly to make a good coondog bringem to these N. Ark. Mtns. and see what these show dogs can do to them. THERE IS A NEED FOR BREEDS STANDARDS AND BENCH SHOWS!!!

__________________
Tablerock

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2009
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 127

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cleo
Can you imagine the feeling of that same hound winning the bench show right before you hunt him and win?

Just wondering how you thing we keep our "show" hounds fit and in shape with the proper muscle tone?

Do you think they look like that from jumping on and off the bench?

---

__________________
Faugh A Ballaugh

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2009
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 127

quote:

---

Originally posted by Junior L
I have Raised lots of pups and sold them or gave them to kids. I have raised as many winners as anyone in both hunts and shows. I hunt hard and take great pride in raising dual purpose hounds.
You let one of the few people that say they don't care what a dog looks like come to your place to pick a pup, and they will pick the best looking pup every time. Most of them figure out that it don't cost any more to feed a good looking hound than it does an ugly one.
If you really believe they have to be ugly to make a good coondog bringem to these N. Ark. Mtns. and see what these show dogs can do to them. THERE IS A NEED FOR BREEDS STANDARDS AND BENCH SHOWS!!!

---

__________________
Faugh A Ballaugh

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2009
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 127

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maverick061106
Thant's just what I was getting at. Some of you folks just can't see the point becuase you are so stuck on your own thinking...

A hound would not BE ABLE to hunt 300 nights a year if it were not bred to physically (ie. - how it looks) hunt 300 nights a year.

---

So your saying that we need a beauty contest to tell us that a dog has good enough confirmation to hunt?

I'm sorry I don't feel that way.

I don't have problems with folks showing hunting dogs on the bench,

what I just do not understand is folks who are breeding hunting dogs with no concern for hunting ability.

It sickens me to see adds for dogs that are two years old and are bench champions, but have never been in the woods.


hey, I'm not complaining about westminster. If ya want a show dog get a shitzu!

__________________
Faugh A Ballaugh

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

quote:

---

Originally posted by mick mclaughlin
I'm all for it Cleo!

Problem is I see Grand Show Champion dogs that are never put in the woods.

I have seen several dogs advertised lately 2+ years old that have "show potential", or are "proven bench winners", but it says right in the add that they have never been hunted.

That is what made me make this post.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2009
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 127

quote:

---

Originally posted by blueticking: it
what is wrong with that at least the person was truthful
its the ads that say he is a coondog and 10 trees later he
trees 1

---

__________________
Faugh A Ballaugh

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

what hunting dog the guy didnt lie to you.
the show people,show right in front of everybody.
the hunters have 12 dogs, 12 differnt trucks and split
up. why?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2009
Location: new hampshire
Posts: 29

uum the point is to bench your dog and see how good he/she looks. and if your not a fan y would you post?????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2043

so mick im guessing all border collies should be used for herding sheep only and retrievers should be used to only retrieve , all dalmatians should be at a fire house. etc. pretty marrow minded.. i hunt my dogs hard as heck but the ones who have what it take gets put on a bench even at a early age.. maybe just me.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: MI
Posts: 207

I love to look at a beautiful hound - to me there are few things better to lay eyes on. They are regal and proud, they simply stand out compared to other dog breeds.

What does it matter whether they are shown or hunted? Just because a dog hunts well or shows well doesn't mean it will reproduce like offspring. Several titled hunting dogs have show dogs in their bloodline and vise versa. If you can't appreciate what makes a hound, then get out of the sport and find another hobby.

This past weekend at Ashland I guarantee there were more people there to watch the show than the hunt. Anyone can participate in a show, not everyone can participate in a competitive night hunt.

Whoever started this post, I say you might be a bit envious of those "purty" dogs. At least when they get pulled out of the dog box someone passing by might stop and take notice. They might get interested in the breed or in hunting.

The last thing coonhound fanciers need to do is take sides. Each to his own, the coonhound world provides a good assortment of variety and activities so a majority, not a minority, can participate. Everyone has to start and end somewhere. I don't think its anyone else's business what that includes. As long as the dog is loved and taken care of, what is the issue?

You think all them hunting dogs have a good life? I've seen several here at rescues as strays, coming in skin and bones, some with the worst conformation I've ever seen. Poor old females that have been bred way too many times then dumped off on the side of the highway. I don't think many of the show people on here could be accused of treating a dog that way . . . .

__________________
Chestnut Ridge Kennels

Home of :

GRCH "PR" Chestnut Ridge Annabelle

CH "PR" Chestnut Ridge Josephine

And the Bean pups:
CH CCH "PR" Chestnut Ridge Rocafella
"PR" Chestnut Ridge Murphy's Law

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2009
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 127

The hunting dogs that are shown, do not bother me. It's the dogs that are bred for show only that bother me.

Thats my point, that I don't seem to be able to make.

Why are folks involved in a hunting breed of dogs, that do not hunt?

I'm obviously the minority on this, So I am officially shut up. I don't get it, but I don't have to.

Poodles used to be retrievers.

I hope folks never say, "this breed used to be coonhounds"

Some breeds can almost say that already.

HAve a good one!

__________________
Faugh A Ballaugh

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: MI
Posts: 207

Where are you getting your data from?

How many dogs haven't you seen that are hunting dogs - thousands I am sure. Thousands across the country that may not be competition hunted or win so you see their names in the results pages.

I see your view point, others came on here to share theirs. How would you be able to tell if a dog was hunted or not based on it's appearance? Our Lily is a house dog, not a scratch on her, but can hunt with the best of them. Our GRNT Bell looks just as nice on the bench as she performs in the woods.

I don't think its fair that you've lumped a few people into being an entire representation of the show people or hunting people. Showing in general is NOT hurting the sport or the breed. I suspect there is more to your opinion than what you are willing to share.

__________________
Chestnut Ridge Kennels

Home of :

GRCH "PR" Chestnut Ridge Annabelle

CH "PR" Chestnut Ridge Josephine

And the Bean pups:
CH CCH "PR" Chestnut Ridge Rocafella
"PR" Chestnut Ridge Murphy's Law

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

I know the point you're making . The other side of that coin is it's legal to do whatever you want with a dog you own except abuse it. You don't think the entrys from bench shows ,field trails and water races are used to help keep the doors open at the local clubs and the sponsoring kennel clubs ? Showing is a hobby and so is coon hunting. The sun will come up tomorrow long after we're gone.
The conformation thing I've never been sure about since the fastest and hardest going dogs I've owned have been a long ways from the biggest winners I've had on the bench. I have a lot of respect for quadruple grand champion dogs that excel at it all. I've made several triple grands but I don't do much competition hunting myself and have never been interested in having a handler except in rare occasions. My dogs are here to entertain me and what I enjoy doing, when I want to do it. In return I feed and care for them and shovel poop every day, a lot of poop over my life time.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oak Grove,Ark
Posts: 597

I would like to see a list of the dogs that what you call bred for show only.
If a walker dog, let not your heart be troubled, some where in the first 4 gen. you will find coonhounds that could get the job done. I think that goes for the other breeds as well.
I would like to see your show dog only list.
What do you purpose for the elder hunters that still like to be envolved in the sport to do, just quit and give a sport they love ,or can they have fun and still be part of us.
Some times if we think things out before we speak it helps.

__________________
Tablerock

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Prince Edward Island,Canada
Posts: 4589

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
To keep the women out of the woods and in the clubhouse.

---

__________________
Autumn Clements

'PR'LEAD'S MIDNITE SASSY
CFC CH Canadian GCH Multi Group Placing MBPIG BBPIG LEGACYK STANNYFIELD PRIME TIME (AKC & UKC Pointed)
BPIG MBBPIG WINDAMIRS RED LIGHT DISTRICT V AMBERLANE
LEGACYK DARE TO DREAM V CBLUES
LEGACYK WHITE AS A GHOST V CBLUES

Gone but not forgotten
GRNITECH GRCH PKC CH'PR'CLEMENTS' BLUE PRANCER
GRNITECH GRCH'PR'SPIKE'S TWILITE HOOKER
'PR'PRANCER'S GETTIN DOWN N DIRTY (PrancerxHooker)
NITECH CH’PR’BUELL’S BLUE ROCKY(Whitey x Spice)
CKC BBPIG MARIES BABY BREEZE

Last edited by Autumn Clements on 03-25-2010 at 05:03 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 3709

Why continue to beat a dead horse?

Just have fun doing what you do and I'll have fun doing what I do.

That, once again, should be the bottom line.

Be blessed!

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
Breeding for the future of the Treeing Walker
"God bless the Broken Road"
~A man is only as good as his word~

Proud home to;

'PR' Kentucky River Fly Again (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen)
ACHA CHT x3 Broken Roads Little Texas (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
CH Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Rowdy Lil Miss (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Meabie I will (Lipper's Rooster x Missy)
Broken Roads IMA Boomer2 (UKC NATL GRCH GRNTCH Honest Abe x Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom
~~~~~Watch out!~~~~~
They just might make an IMPACT!

and the girls...Punkin and Tater!

Gone by never forgotten ~ Fly high my beautiful angels
~ GRCH GNTCH PKC SC Toucan Sam
~CH Toucan's Ugly Betty
~ CCH CH Southforks September Rain
~ Martin's Daisy JJ (what a beautiful litter you left behind)
~ Luke, the lab who brought us so many doves and ducks over the years
~ UKC GRCH,ACHA CH 2014 LWCH 2014 2 x's ACHA YOUTH WCH AKC CH AKC CH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen) DNA Profiled ~ Fly high, old friend.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you!"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged