Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Prince Edward Island,Canada
Posts: 4589

I don't believe papers or titles tree coons but the genitics does- being from coondogs who came from coondogs does make a difference, wether the pedigree shows a title or not has nothing to do with their ability.

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 1444

Again I say if the dog is good why not make it Grand ? ? ?

Who is going to believe a 'PR' dog is good never hunting with it? I sure will NOT.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

quote:

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Originally posted by treberta
Again I say if the dog is good why not make it Grand ? ? ?

Who is going to believe a 'PR' dog is good never hunting with it? I sure will NOT.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
Posts: 4837

Papers have nothing to do with the ability of an individual dog. The fact is, as long as all you want is a dog to hunt, who cares what it is out of as long as it does what you want. Most people with a nice dog however, generally want to breed that dog at some point in time. This is where the value of knowing the history of a dog and where it came is essential. If you have a great dog with a crummy history, that isn't breeding material. If you have a great history and a crummy dog that isn't breeding material. When you have a nice dog with a great background that is what you want to build off of.

It costs the same amount to raise, train, and hunt a dog with a good pedigree as it does one with a shoddy one. A pedigree gives you a blueprint of potential. Whether the potential comes out or not, can vary dog to dog, but at least you have an idea. Why not raise a dog with the great pedigree other than you feel like you are wearing the red badge of courage because you have taken a stance againt "all grand" or hunting titles.

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Ron Ashbaugh
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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 1444

Justin, people want what wins! Simple as that. I beat some of the "top" dogs with my grade (single registered) female.

If the hunts are not youre thing I don't blame you but don't expect to have the next big stud dog or sell many pups.

I will say it again. Why not make that dog grand?

EXCUSES

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Northeast Mississippi
Posts: 888

quote:

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Originally posted by treberta
I will say it again. Why not make that dog grand?

EXCUSES

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Casey L Clayton
(662) 523-0375
Mantachie, MS

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

I'm going to go a little against the grain here, and say that we have to make a few assumptions.

#1...the papers are correct. Dog's are not born with their family tree tattooed to their belly....so a pedigree is all we have to go on. I think we all know that they are not 100% accurate...but the majority of them are...

#2 Breeding does not "make a dog". What happens to a young dog between the time they are 12 weeks old and 2 years old has as much to do with the quality of dog as anything.

Papers have as much to do with the TYPE of dog, but little or nothing to do with the QUALITY of dog.

Once you spend a great deal of time in the woods, and have hunted with most if not all of the dogs named on a three generation pedigree, you really can't begin to understand the value of a pedigree.

If your idea of evaluation of a potential stud dog is reading the ads in a magazine, and posting on the message board "what should I breed her to", or you've ever made a breeding decision based upon how well the pups would sell, or eliminated a stud dog, or a pup because they were not eligible for one "program" or another...you haven't done enough homework to understand the value of a pedigree. If you have ever bred to, or considered breeding to last years World hunt winner, based upon the fact that it won a world hunt...you dont understand the value of a pedigree.

Personally, I want a dog that can perform in the woods, and then in the breeding pen. I find the best success is when breeding dogs that descend from FAMILIES of good dogs. Not just one dog that out performed the others on a give night, but dogs who share traits, through genetics, and have demonstrated generation after generation that they have what it takes to succeed both in the pleasure woods, and in competition.

If everyone that had a GOOD female that was ready to raise pups out of that female would do the kind of homework and background checking, we would see a whole different list of "popular" stud dogs, and a whole different list of current and historical reproducers in the years to come!

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: parkersburg, West Virginia
Posts: 35

papers dont really make the dog but you can better your chances of having a good coon dog by looking at the papers and seein if there are proven dogs and proven crosses with those dogs. but you will have good and bad no matter what the papers say. you just better you chances with a good set of papers.

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location:
Posts: 414

I know of a guy that bought two pups off dredd when jess had him got rid of one of the pups kept one his names rock he crossed rock and a gyp named queenie she was a night champ with two or 3 wins on her she was just shy towards people and dogs she was a one owner type of dog but anyone got 9 pups out of that litter heard the pups her treeing their own coon at 7 or 6 monthes their father was 7 monthes old when they bread them some guy in nc sold queenie to said she quit hunting and he sold her for 200 but anyway names don't make what the pups are gonna be like rock was only 7 monthes old no one would buy them cuz of a puppy breeding her but the few people that got the pups were extremly happy

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: MO
Posts: 460

like i said it all about the money. so ur saying a $5000 dog it better then a 350- 600 dog with paper.

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: salt rock w.v
Posts: 934

PAPERS DO MAKE THE DOG FROM A BREEDERS STANDPOINT SOME GREAT COON DOGS WITH NO THOUGHT ON THERE ANCESTORS CANNOT REPRODUCE THERE LIKENESS

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location:
Posts: 991

Papers dont make the dog...but I can look at a set of papers and see if I have something to work with....More often than not the papers were right.

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Nuthin' like a coon treed on Liberal Creek

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: North GA.
Posts: 1226

I buried a dog 2 weeks ago that I knew nothing of his pedigree and he was 10 times more dog than the high breed english dog I buried 4 months ago. He was easy handled, mild mannered, protective , hated a coon and most of all just an all round GREAT dog. He showed me more coons in 3 months than the old dog did in 3 yrs. The last tree had 3 coons in it a he walked out to get one and fell aprox. 40 feet. Starting all over AGAIN. Gotta love training pups.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Thorndale,Pa
Posts: 316

Papers don't make the DOG but they do give you an idea of what you are starting with. If i did not belong to a coon club and participate in the hunts and shows we had it would not matter to me either. But with all the dog papers and puppy's stolen at a few of these big events you would have to wonder. Who really is out of who if you don't know them....

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 337

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
"I have a few dogs without papers and I'd put them up against anything out there"......

I love that line. They talk that smack because they know very well no one can challenge them to back it up next weekend at the local UKC hunt by showing what they got against 3 other dogs drawn at random. They can talk that talk because they don't haved to walk tha walk. Course they always have that famous Cecil Bowen line.....bring your best and hunt with mine! Just call first so I can make sure I'm somewhere else when you get here.....

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Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

I love it!!!
My second favorite line: "Boy, they would just let me hunt my cur/grade dog against those World Beaters....I'd show'em a real COONDOG!"

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2005

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
"I have a few dogs without papers and I'd put them up against anything out there"......

I love that line. They talk that smack because they know very well no one can challenge them to back it up next weekend at the local UKC hunt by showing what they got against 3 other dogs drawn at random. They can talk that talk because they don't haved to walk tha walk. Course they always have that famous Cecil Bowen line.....bring your best and hunt with mine! Just call first so I can make sure I'm somewhere else when you get here.....

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Jim Hill 651-775-1783

Been following these walker dogs since 1983,and love every min of it !!!!





http://minnesotastatecoonhunters.webs.com/

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Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

There yah go.....

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2005

more than welcome, ill even take one with papers too ,just so its fair lol

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If You Cant Stand Behide Our Troops ,Then Try Standing In Front Of Them
Jim Hill 651-775-1783

Been following these walker dogs since 1983,and love every min of it !!!!





http://minnesotastatecoonhunters.webs.com/

Use SunSpot Lights, so bright its like the sun came out at night !!!

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location:
Posts: 414

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
I love it!!!
My second favorite line: "Boy, they would just let me hunt my cur/grade dog against those World Beaters....I'd show'em a real COONDOG!"

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Registered: Nov 2009
Location: East TN
Posts: 256

If I roll a tird in wax paper and put in a crown royal bag, would you buy it? Same goes for a dog imo. It doesn't matter how much wrapping with fancy things you put around it's still a tird. I don't want papers, I want a coon dog.

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Jon Baker

Home of the pot lickers

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day! Teach a man to fish, and tomorrow he'll have all his buddies in your fishin' hole!

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: elkland pa
Posts: 252

david boggs said it best, papers don't tree coon, but it helps him keep track of them! understand the bloodline and where to go with it from here! i have a half witted half breed hound myself named rosco peacoaltrain! he is half walker and half i have no idea! i think wolf and i can tell ya this,,,,,,,, you turn him loose, they ain't a coon that stands a chance! bottom line, fatboy my old walker trained him well! bad news! rosco is a big bad gator dog! on the tree,,,,,,, he'll kill everyother dog right now! fight to the death! i refuse to hunt him for this reason! i'll never cross breed another dog, and only stay within the bloodline! rosco is the frankenstein dog! proudly owned by me! if i wanted to kill a ton of coon, i would either turn shotgun and little ann loose or go with just one hound! the hound from hell! (rosco)

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: elkland pa
Posts: 252

quote:

---

Originally posted by treberta
Again I say if the dog is good why not make it Grand ? ? ?

Who is going to believe a 'PR' dog is good never hunting with it? I sure will NOT.

---

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: elkland pa
Posts: 252

quote:

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Originally posted by treberta
Justin, people want what wins! Simple as that. I beat some of the "top" dogs with my grade (single registered) female.

If the hunts are not youre thing I don't blame you but don't expect to have the next big stud dog or sell many pups.

I will say it again. Why not make that dog grand?

EXCUSES

---

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Sandy Hook, KY
Posts: 1009

just becals they are tittled unless i have sean them go several times my sealf becalw you never know how that dog got that tittle but i do like my dogs pappers to be a good set but you can bet if i breed a dog it will be coon dog to coon dog but i wount them pappers also but not nessarley the tittles i just wount it to be a coon dog,i have sean a maney grand night that could not tree there owen coon even a WORLD CHAMPEN THAT NEVER TREED ITS OWEN COON IN ITS HOLE LIFE and that is why i breed coon dog to coon dog but i still wount the rite line to beed to with papers.and i pleasure hunt but i still will not feed one i could not comp hunt and win.david

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