Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

quote:

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Originally posted by Rob Ellett
mine are most of these combined,lOL.
Sounds like a nice dog Gary bought.

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Registered: Sep 2004
Location: West Plains, Missouri
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Mr. Carroll,
Maybe I misread your post, but I was under the impression that Albert II only had one litter of pups. I thought the only cross made on him was the one with the littermate to Rambo II, the litter that Albert III came from?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

quote:

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Originally posted by Jerrod Lawrence
Mr. Carroll,
Maybe I misread your post, but I was under the impression that Albert II only had one litter of pups. I thought the only cross made on him was the one with the littermate to Rambo II, the litter that Albert III came from?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Armstrong,IL
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tight mouth gyp doing? You wouldnt be interested in a breeding lease would ya?

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Registered: Sep 2004
Location: West Plains, Missouri
Posts: 166

Mr. Carroll,
Do you know if there are any other good studs out of Albert II besides Albert III. I didn't realize that there were many pups out of him. The papers on my pups say that he only sired 11 pups. Thanks.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 67

First I personally have to state that in any line there will be bad apples it is just a daughter of Scout won my husband over and why change something that he likes -

First thing he liked and it is a tie between voice and nose. Third is hard treeing hounds. Last but not least is structure.... he prefers square heads ( aka tree heads ), square build and bigger bones. Of course not all Scout of other Utchman hounds pass this body type... so he looks to 1 to 3 first.... 4th being the frosting.

I read a few posts here and not sure if many new comers may realize this but Rebel and Ranger 2 were half brothers, same father ( Ranger 1 ) with different mothers. Rebel starting the Hawk / Scout line and then Ranger 2 starting the Ranger Line. It is not fair to say these male hounds are the only good hounds that made or make Uchtman hounds.... we must study the females and what other "line" was introduced to bring in something new ( with luck to make a good line better ) as well.

WE have not had the pleasure to grow up a SuperGlue or an Albert Puppy.... so can not say they are better or worse against the Scout or Ranger males.

Home of: the late "Scout's blue abby", "Ranger's Heir to The Throne", "Rutland Woods U So. Bl. Bad 2 The Bones", Rutland Woods U So. Bl. Beaut", "Scout's So. Bl. Blazon", "Scout's So. Bl. Little One". The Hawk / Scout line x Ranger line with a little out breeding to ward off the trouble genes.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerrod Lawrence
Mr. Carroll,
Do you know if there are any other good studs out of Albert II besides Albert III. I didn't realize that there were many pups out of him. The papers on my pups say that he only sired 11 pups. Thanks.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
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quote:

---

Originally posted by kelkoonr
First I personally have to state that in any line there will be bad apples it is just a daughter of Scout won my husband over and why change something that he likes -

First thing he liked and it is a tie between voice and nose. Third is hard treeing hounds. Last but not least is structure.... he prefers square heads ( aka tree heads ), square build and bigger bones. Of course not all Scout of other Utchman hounds pass this body type... so he looks to 1 to 3 first.... 4th being the frosting.

I read a few posts here and not sure if many new comers may realize this but Rebel and Ranger 2 were half brothers, same father ( Ranger 1 ) with different mothers. Rebel starting the Hawk / Scout line and then Ranger 2 starting the Ranger Line. It is not fair to say these male hounds are the only good hounds that made or make Uchtman hounds.... we must study the females and what other "line" was introduced to bring in something new ( with luck to make a good line better ) as well.

WE have not had the pleasure to grow up a SuperGlue or an Albert Puppy.... so can not say they are better or worse against the Scout or Ranger males.

Home of: the late "Scout's blue abby", "Ranger's Heir to The Throne", "Rutland Woods U So. Bl. Bad 2 The Bones", Rutland Woods U So. Bl. Beaut", "Scout's So. Bl. Blazon", "Scout's So. Bl. Little One". The Hawk / Scout line x Ranger line with a little out breeding to ward off the trouble genes.

---

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No doubt this line of Blue Dogs have had an impact down through the years on the Bluetick Breed however these dogs have never won anything major in the hunts nor has their offspring done all that great in the larger hunts as some of the other line especially that of the close or closet Hammer Breed Dogs, and one of these lines being the Northern Blue Jet Line of Ed Meads which came from the kennel of the great Dave Dean, and another one that is clicking well now is the Spanky crosses that have been made with the Jet Line. Ron Taylor no doubt is the most successful with the Levi blood which came from Jet V. and a Hammer X. female ( Chrystal ) he has carried this blood a while, and he will hold the record as being the most success breeder, hunter until it is broken by someone. I just can't imagine even though the Hawk Dog has the record of being the best reproducer.............. why some of those Grand Nites didn't win the larger hunts. They seem not to have what it takes to win big ??????????????/

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Natural Blue Rose won the Grand American one year, if I remember right.

I think one thing working in this scenario is the fact that Uchtman bred dogs are very popular among pleasure hunters because of the continued emphasis on big mouths and good looking, houndy dogs with good dispositions.

I know a couple of the Uchtman brothers fairly well, and they pretty much march to the beat of their own drum. Producing big winners doesn't seem to be their main focus. They just breed the kind of dogs they enjoy hunting.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
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Was the Dawsom man the same guy that owned a dog named "Knothead"?

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Oxford Mississippi
Posts: 158

yes charles dawson owned Dawsons wolfcreek knothead.

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Thanks.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Armstrong,IL
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quote:

---

Originally posted by kelkoonr
First I personally have to state that in any line there will be bad apples it is just a daughter of Scout won my husband over and why change something that he likes -

First thing he liked and it is a tie between voice and nose. Third is hard treeing hounds. Last but not least is structure.... he prefers square heads ( aka tree heads ), square build and bigger bones. Of course not all Scout of other Utchman hounds pass this body type... so he looks to 1 to 3 first.... 4th being the frosting.

I read a few posts here and not sure if many new comers may realize this but Rebel and Ranger 2 were half brothers, same father ( Ranger 1 ) with different mothers. Rebel starting the Hawk / Scout line and then Ranger 2 starting the Ranger Line. It is not fair to say these male hounds are the only good hounds that made or make Uchtman hounds.... we must study the females and what other "line" was introduced to bring in something new ( with luck to make a good line better ) as well.

WE have not had the pleasure to grow up a SuperGlue or an Albert Puppy.... so can not say they are better or worse against the Scout or Ranger males.

Home of: the late "Scout's blue abby", "Ranger's Heir to The Throne", "Rutland Woods U So. Bl. Bad 2 The Bones", Rutland Woods U So. Bl. Beaut", "Scout's So. Bl. Blazon", "Scout's So. Bl. Little One". The Hawk / Scout line x Ranger line with a little out breeding to ward off the trouble genes.

---

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 67

quote:

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Originally posted by Rob Ellett
KK how you been? Long time no see, hope all has been going better for than the last time I talkd with you.
How are you guys set for blue dogs now?

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2) adult Males, 2) adult females, 1) Male under a year and 2) Females under a year. And wished that "one" more time cross with old Abby and "Prince" would of been so we could have had more bloodline from such a super cross.... May have to go seek out the owners of Abbileen and Sooner to buy them back... price most likely a second morgage on the house -

Mike was upset with him self for not breeding Abby back within a year of the first litter but financely and time wise we couldn't handle it since he wanted to keep every pup... rather it been 1 or 10. With luck the 3 new pups that are descendents of Scout will make great hounds and the cross between Abby's puppies with be just as powerful in the woods. The male pup is awesome allready and the females are coming on strong but lack a little in the booming voice department .

Kelley

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Location: Iowa
Posts: 67

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Vaught
No doubt this line of Blue Dogs have had an impact down through the years on the Bluetick Breed however these dogs have never won anything major in the hunts nor has their offspring done all that great in the larger hunts as some of the other line especially that of the close or closet Hammer Breed Dogs, and one of these lines being the Northern Blue Jet Line of Ed Meads which came from the kennel of the great Dave Dean, and another one that is clicking well now is the Spanky crosses that have been made with the Jet Line. Ron Taylor no doubt is the most successful with the Levi blood which came from Jet V. and a Hammer X. female ( Chrystal ) he has carried this blood a while, and he will hold the record as being the most success breeder, hunter until it is broken by someone. I just can't imagine even though the Hawk Dog has the record of being the best reproducer.............. why some of those Grand Nites didn't win the larger hunts. They seem not to have what it takes to win big ??????????????/

---

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Location: Iowa
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Yeap I think Flash was a good asset to the outbreeding of the start of the Utchman bluetick and before we get another N.B. person in here bashing.... she was Northern Blue breed on top if my memory serves me correctly.... they did a line breeding, Uchtman male x Flash ( the red letter kind ), to produce Flash II.

Wortman's Blue Judy came in to play a good role but hate to admit this but to much Judy gave us one ugly SOB inside and out... friendly but dense, no voice and would had to be taught to hunt...one of those bad apple types. So we stay away from Judy showing up more then 5 times in a 5 gen. pedigree.... this pup had her about 8 times in 4 gen. Maybe he was just that one in a litter but again first impressions and not willing to take another risk.

I could go on all night best get out of here on this blue talk....lol

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
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quote:

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Originally posted by kelkoonr
Hey John, I am not here to prove or say Uchtman is better then another bluetick line, my husband just seems to like this southern blue line over a Jet or N.B. line. The first pup he had, when he got back into coon hunting in 1994, was actually a Jet ( I think is was III ) x N.B. and one generation of Utchman's Rebel... she was extremely coon aggressive but had no natural desire to go off and hunt not even off game. First impressions do mean alot.... if "Sadie" would of been a little more of a hunting coon dog we may be N.B or Jet instead of Utchman. And as for the big competition dog hunt events... I haven't a glue as to why the Uchtman brothers havn't desired to achieve such a status on a hound..... that is some thing you will have to ask them about. I know there are several hounds out there that are of Utchman blood that don't bear the name that made attempts at it. I am not here to insalt you but there is different levels of achievement not just going out for big hunt wins with one dog.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Columbia, Missouri
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I'd don't know.
The Rocko dog was direct out of Scout not sure the place in the world hunt but was high scoring
Dual Grand Scooter was Uchtman bred dog 3 rd in the world
Utchmans Fly High Scoring female Blue tick this year out of Hornet
Uchtmans Jasper direct from Scout placed 5 this year.
Uchtmans Clyde Best of Show Bluetick male this year out of Hornet
I believe this preformance program will bring this guys out to the big hunts. Or at least I hope so.
I like them as coondogs just like you like Sadie. Maybe some of us can't afford to travel to the big hunts with our dogs I do understand that as well.
We all know coondog when we see them no matter if they are Hammer, Uchtman, Smokey River, Vaughn or a combo of the sort.
I think the best is yet to come from the bluetick period. I just hope I can help with my line of dogs.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
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A lot of the guys that hunt Uchtman dogs are mainly pleasure hunters.

Some of the traits that can give you the edge in a hunt, like extreme independence, are't as common in these dogs.

I hunt them because they suit me better than anything else I've had. Plain and simple. They are easy going dogs, have big mouths, look like hounds, and have good noses. They also aren't usually bad trashy.

I just seem to be able to go from pup to finished dog with fewer headaches and less grief with these dogs than some others.

I had a buddy back home with a Walker dog he placed 10th in the World Hunt one year, back in 1989. That dog was well nigh unbeatable...if you were hunting him hard. he had so much go that if you didn't hunt him hard, he'd leave the country before looking for a coon, or else jump a deer and run it for a couple of hours until he dropped off and treed a coon.

When he was clicking, he was just about impossible to beat, strike, track, or tree. On those nights, I loved him.

But if I had to keep him and hunt him, I wouldn't have had him as a gift. Hunting that dog was work.

Now, don't get me wrong. I like a dog that will go deep, and mine will. I can't stand a slow, wallering track dog. Drives me nuts.

But I love a dog with a good, hound bawl mouth, and I like a dog that looks like a hound. I don't want one I have to beat to death or shock until they're dead with old age to break them.

If I have a dog that is enjoyable to hunt, and he or she gets beat a step or two on a tree, or on a strike, I am not going to cry and switch dogs.

I think Uchtman dogs are more accurately described as pleasure that dogs that can win in the hunts rather than dogs bred for competition first and foremost.

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You get many "smiley" puppies. I love that when it accures... if they weren't bouncing up to you while doing it people think they are being mean...lol. Seems to boys do it more then the girls.

Easy handling, yes yes yes.... once you get them past stubborness...lol. Beaut I had one heck of a time with in leading... she was a sit and pout girl.... just needed a better training techq.... hot dog worked good Once I have them trained Mike can lead them with his pinky finger.

Pleasure hound... old Abby was that... she wasnt fast, but never slick treed, never was agressive to another hound, never did she go for hours before coming back. She was a mid range hunter, went deep if there was enough timber mileage to do that. She left the truck thinking nothing else but finding coon. Her only fault and why she never was a successful competition type hound is she'd pull off tree if there was aggressive company. She could with stand the occasional face talk but if they were more aggressive then that she'd pretty much let them have the tree and come back to sit next to Mike's feet letting him know someone wasnt playing fair. TO CLEARFY A BIT... Abby was this way but none of her children, once they are treed they are glued to it no matter what. Abby was a broke hound before she became a part of our family and hard telling if it was just her nature, to pull when aggression was to bad, or something that accured during her younger / training years. She was 5 when we purchased her.

Yet in all we just like a very good hound that is a pleasure to go out in the dark with. We show too but our hounds are nothing bench pretty just average Joes and Janes.

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Last edited by kelkoonr on 11-08-2004 at 04:57 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
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Old Albert wouldn't stay hooked with a rough dog, and neither would Albert II.

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I just had a thought...the Rambo dogs have done a good bit of winning, and they are pretty much Uchtman breeding.

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quote:

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Originally posted by John Carroll
I just had a thought...the Rambo dogs have done a good bit of winning, and they are pretty much Uchtman breeding.

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I hunted with Clear river diamond Jim and I'll be the first to tell you that that dog is a coon dog. The dogs that are being bred today say out of Hornet are different than the rest of the utchman dogs. All of todays dogs are different than those of yesterday but Hornet turned the tables for the utchman dogs. Those dogs are like walkers, they are going to tree right or wrong and seems like they will stay. I love tree dogs and would much rather miss a tree or two and stay put if they think they are right than to run tracks for ever and other dogs tree behind them.

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