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BLCKRIVREDBONES
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 491

quote:
Originally posted by DFHTrapper
I'm a trapper and have been for over 40 yrs. I was there during the fur boom and before I am also a coon hunter. There are 5 main things that drive the price of wild fur, temp. in countries thatbuy our fur ( Russia ), what's in style, the price of a barrel of oil, availabillity of whatever fur that is being sought, and what ranch raised fur is bringing. Currently there is a major surplus of coon out there from the big fur house's all the way back down to us the hunters and trappers. You need to find other markets for your fur, harvest only what you need to for your dogs, or have a coat made for your other half. Go out and run your dogs for the enjoyment of the hunt, sit by a camp fire with your buddies and just listen to the dogs do what their suposed to do.

Very true however Russia and China are having very cold winters and that has driven hide prices up somewhat in the last month or so. Fashion plays a huge role and unfortunately the anti's have effectively all but killed the American and European fur market for the most part. Fur started to make a comeback when China had it's economic boom. A few years back I was getting $12 tops on my 'rats and otter hit $195. This was due to increased demand in China. Fur is a status symbol so whenever a country becomes an economic power and the people reap the rewards they buy fur to show off their wealth. It's also a cultural fashion such as in Russia.

Typically when the U.S. has a recession and the dollar is down (that's where oil has an effect on fur) we get paid more for our fur. However the recession is worldwide and the economic boom in China came to a halt as well.

Like anything it's all about supply and demand. If there's no supply and the demand is there you will get top dollar. If there is some demand and the supply is huge you will get paid little for your fur. If there is no demand, there is no market and your hides are basically worthless.

The other factor is carry over of finished garments in retail stores. Most fur retailers around the world finance their inventory like a car dealer does here in the U.S. so if they haven't sold last year's inventory then they don't need any more until it sells. This sometimes creates a lag in fur prices. We're seeing that in Russia and China right now. The winter is cold and fur is selling but it hasn't trickled down to us yet. The slight increase in fur prices over the last month is an indicator that the market has improved.

I agree that we will probably never see the high prices we saw in the late 70's and early 80's. With adjusted inflation you'd need to see $100 coon to equal the $50 coon back in the day. Like I said in an earlier post, if that happens (which I seriously doubt) good luck finding a coon.

NAFA is really the only organization actively promoting the fur fashion around the world. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars promoting fur and trying to open up new markets.

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01-14-2010 05:31 PM

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Brian France
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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 139

Im getting tired of hearing about these bad ass redbone hounds out of Elkland, Pa. I hope when you and Tom Knapp have your little competition that his walker hounds stomp your ass so we all can stop hearing about this high volume of coons you tree and how many you brag about killing. If you were in it just for the dogs like you say you would cut back on killing so many. Do these HIGH POWER hounds need this many coon? How many ol' time coonhunters do you hear bragging about how many coon they shot and wasted? And how many go on telling where they hunt? Maybe us guys across the border from you are a little more secretive about our hunting spots! I guess we gotta be or someone like you will kill all the coon we enjoy treeing more than once! Wipe the milk off your chin and make sure you stay in Pa.

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01-14-2010 05:34 PM

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BLCKRIVREDBONES
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 491

quote:
Originally posted by DFHTrapper
You need to find other markets for your fur, harvest only what you need to for your dogs, or have a coat made for your other half. Go out and run your dogs for the enjoyment of the hunt, sit by a camp fire with your buddies and just listen to the dogs do what their suposed to do.

That's the best idea right there!

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01-14-2010 05:35 PM

coondogedog
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: N.E. Arkansas
Posts: 1042

quote:
Originally posted by smokin-1-mo
WE GOT A GUY HERE THAT WILL KILL EVERY COON IN THE TREE AND HE CALLS HIMSELF A COONHUNTER...........ALL ABOUT NUMBERS FOR HIM....

Probably hunts a Walker dog!! lolol. How's your season been going, Chuck? Loyd.

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01-14-2010 05:46 PM

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MATTY G
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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: BROOKFIELD, MA.
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Brian I'm with you 100%..I'm one of those old time coonhunters (45 yrs) and this butcher makes me sick...Maybe when he grows up someday, he may understand what we are taking about being a sportsman...

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01-14-2010 09:35 PM

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POTOMAC
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Registered: Jul 2007
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a coondawg does not need 200 hides in his moutha real hound does it because he is bred to and he loves to tree coon. my hounds will be lucky to see 4 coon each a year. you would have better dogs if you stop slaughtering coons and giving them to your hounds. remember you alwways try harder for something you cant have. i dont have alot of coons in my country but we can still here a good chase. it makes me sick to here people bragging about slaughtering animals like that. i guess you have a different outlook when you get older and you start appreciating wildlife more. think about it!!!!!!

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01-14-2010 10:20 PM

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BLCKRIVREDBONES
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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 491

quote:
Originally posted by POTOMAC
a coondawg does not need 200 hides in his moutha real hound does it because he is bred to and he loves to tree coon. my hounds will be lucky to see 4 coon each a year. you would have better dogs if you stop slaughtering coons and giving them to your hounds. remember you alwways try harder for something you cant have. i dont have alot of coons in my country but we can still here a good chase. it makes me sick to here people bragging about slaughtering animals like that. i guess you have a different outlook when you get older and you start appreciating wildlife more. think about it!!!!!!

Hopefully you guys that are criticizing the guy with the redbones know Brian France is talking about isn't me!

The topic of how many coons you should shoot is a debate that can go on forever but some parts of the country have more coons than others. Some parts of Michigan are lousy with coon. It's not unusual to see 3 or 4 road kills per mile. I asked one farmer permission to hunt and he asked me how much I charge. The only request he had was to kill 'em all. I hunted that farm for 5 years and never had to wait 5 minutes for a strike.

If the coon are thick, distemper can wipe them out faster than all the hunters and trappers combined if populations aren't kept in check.

Some parts of the country have far less pressure from trappers and coon hunters. I now live in Northern Michigan smack dab in the middle of 1 million acres of state and national forest. I know nearly every coon hunter in my area and there are only about 5 guys that are die hard hunters. They probably knock out 30 - 40 coon per year apiece. As far as I know, we all leave sows with kittens except when I'm training a young dog I'll knock one out if the pup did it right.

If I lived in an area that had a low coon population I probably wouldn't shoot very many either. In fact I'm so spoiled I'd probably sell the dogs and take up bowling.

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01-15-2010 02:15 AM

Brian France
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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 139

I know that you understand I wasn't talking about you in Michigan I was refering to coondawg hunter. I have no problems with anyone shooting coons especially when the dogs did a good job on them. I do however get tired real quick of someone flapping their lips about how many coon their dogs tree and how many coon they shoot out and waste "because it is all about the dogs" not the dollar. Well, I have been a trapper and hunter for years and never got rich selling furs but I never tried to impress anyone by telling a story about how many coons my dogs treed and I shot only to leave them laying to waste. Hell, my dogs probably tree 500-1,000 coon a year BIG DEAL! I shot 2 this fall and I know these same dogs will tree a pile this year with only having 2 mouthfull's of coon the year before. This guy only lives about an hour from me and I'm pretty sure we have more coon than they do in that area and I want to keep it this way. It's also hard enough these days to promote our sport and we don't need a game hog making us all look bad. Whatever, I have my opinion and everyone has their own opinion.

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01-15-2010 03:34 AM

Brian France
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Registered: Oct 2009
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Posts: 139

One more thing, I do understand about distemper and rabies and agree with you about keeping the animals in check. I just wanted to clarify this. Happy huntin!

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01-15-2010 03:39 AM

Cole Adams
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 226

I sold 39 to Steve Pugh in Falmouth, Ky a few days before christmas. Got a $4.50 average, and my buddy got a $5 average. Better than leaving them in the woods.

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01-15-2010 02:59 PM

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brogy
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I'm heading out to sell fur in just a few minutes. We held a club fur hunt and big coon contest Oct 30th. That is the only fur I'm selling. 28 coon. We sell them green. Dad and I went through all of them yesterday and brushed them out. We thought we had a bunch of good sized coon, after all it was a big coon contest and all the coon weighed were 20-27 lbs, but some members just donated fur. We went through them and 50% of the furs are junk. Small, unprime coon and we have a hunch some of them hung on a nail a day or two before someone donated them to us. Its nice that members made an effort to donate some fur to the club, but some of these coons should have been left in the tree. Regardless, some of the fur wasn't well cared for.

Fur buyer said he was paying $15 @ the top. Dad has a history of being pretty darn close with his grading. Dad graded them and all said and done we expect a $5 average for 28 coon= $140. It will be interesting to see how we come out.

I only have 4 hides personally - the 1 25lber I took the night of the fur hunt and donated to the club. I only killed 1 coon to the old dog when I had a pup along for the 1st time. I knocked out a handful to my young dog but only 3 were worth skinning. 3-4 more that were smaller coon that fell in water or were full of burdocks I didn't bother with. I friend of mine is looking to tan a couple hides himself so I'm giving him my personal coon in trade that he tans 1 for me.

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01-15-2010 03:26 PM

trappin_girl
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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: buckhannon, wv
Posts: 1534

were they put up coon or raw coon? how many holes? Low/unprime? im sellin close to 60-70 some coon come march auction. yes they have been dogged so i will be lucky to get 2 bucks out of them... most are big, but my averages are about XL not stretched.they have about at least 2 holes in the back drops down to a number 2 hide... some prolly has more than that which will prolly most be about a number 3.

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01-15-2010 03:41 PM

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trappin_girl
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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: buckhannon, wv
Posts: 1534

quote:
Originally posted by DFHTrapper
I'm a trapper and have been for over 40 yrs. I was there during the fur boom and before I am also a coon hunter. There are 5 main things that drive the price of wild fur, temp. in countries thatbuy our fur ( Russia ), what's in style, the price of a barrel of oil, availabillity of whatever fur that is being sought, and what ranch raised fur is bringing. Currently there is a major surplus of coon out there from the big fur house's all the way back down to us the hunters and trappers. You need to find other markets for your fur, harvest only what you need to for your dogs, or have a coat made for your other half. Go out and run your dogs for the enjoyment of the hunt, sit by a camp fire with your buddies and just listen to the dogs do what their suposed to do.

exactly

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01-15-2010 03:42 PM

Kevin Self
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: sc
Posts: 801

$10 a piece whole no skinning involved. Some like to eat em.

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01-15-2010 03:52 PM

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brogy
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Just got in from the fur buyer. Did better than expected. Buyer told us that he gave us more than they were worth because he was confident the market will continue to pick up. He is confident the market will be "better" next year and has a history of buying good fur from my dad, wants us to come back next year. I didn't sell him my fur last year and wasn't happy with him the year before. Word must have gotten back to him.

"Better" in his prespective is different than mine. I wished they'd predict $3 coon every year, and then give me $10 for the few I'd sell.

Anyway, for our club we had 28 coon harvested Oct 30th for our big coon contest. We averaged $8.50 on them. Nearly $100 more than how Dad had graded them.

Dad averaged $10.66 on his 12, all taken after Nov 15th.

Another young guy was there selling his. They must have been junk. He said they were early. He averaged $5 something on 24 coon.

No matter what they pay. A coon is worth more sitting in a tree than what they are walking into the fur buyer.

Our coon population is way way down. Thanks to fly bait.

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01-15-2010 08:23 PM

coondawg_hunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2009
Location: elkland pa
Posts: 252

quote:
Originally posted by Brian France
I know that you understand I wasn't talking about you in Michigan I was refering to coondawg hunter. I have no problems with anyone shooting coons especially when the dogs did a good job on them. I do however get tired real quick of someone flapping their lips about how many coon their dogs tree and how many coon they shoot out and waste "because it is all about the dogs" not the dollar. Well, I have been a trapper and hunter for years and never got rich selling furs but I never tried to impress anyone by telling a story about how many coons my dogs treed and I shot only to leave them laying to waste. Hell, my dogs probably tree 500-1,000 coon a year BIG DEAL! I shot 2 this fall and I know these same dogs will tree a pile this year with only having 2 mouthfull's of coon the year before. This guy only lives about an hour from me and I'm pretty sure we have more coon than they do in that area and I want to keep it this way. It's also hard enough these days to promote our sport and we don't need a game hog making us all look bad. Whatever, I have my opinion and everyone has their own opinion.

first off brian, i wasn't actually bragging about how many coons my dogs treed and i killed, yeah well maybe a little! i was impressed by these young hounds yes! but i was hired by a bunch of farmers to come in and make a harvest of raccoons to protect their corn harvest! these coons were literally damaging their fields! i agreed! little did i know how bad the situtation was till i turned my hounds loose! i have hunted this area and trapped this same area for years and have never seen this kind of population before, i understand where you are coming from but please understand mine! yes i treed everybit of 300 plus coon and killed 200 plus, and yes i threw them all away! so what! there is still alot of coon there, it seems like they are coming out of the woodwork! now you say that you are an hour from me and your hounds tree 500 to 1000 per year and only taste 2 times per year? you brian, have 3 times the amount of coon there that i have here, and i am busting my ass with my hounds to keep the numbers in check and not have to worry about over population and diseases! you degrade me for this? i don't sell my hides,i actually threw them away and encouraged others to do so , cuz i am waiting for all of the coonhides in the auctions to be sold off to raise the demand back so that our coon will be worth something soon you degrade me for this? i am far from being an ashhole! but may your 1000 coon interbreed eat up all ya got for groceries, combine some different strains of distemper and rabies, and come up with one that you personally can't explain, and then tell me i am a hide hog! you brian are an idiot, and are full of bullshchit! i said my dogs tree 300 plus per you said yours tree 500 to 1000 that is 3 times the dogs as mine, brian your ass is next on the list and i want those dogs! you are next!

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01-16-2010 09:03 AM

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Jon Walz
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Registered: May 2007
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Worth more alive than dead to me!

I just sold 24 green hides averaged 9 bucks. I remember averages in the 40s. That sure was nice.... But this year I hunted all season and never heard someone elses hounds...Which is nice too!

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tsix
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Registered: May 2008
Location: southeast OHIO
Posts: 22

hides

I sold 56 hides today 2$ apiece. Sold to the same guy last year got 8$. He said he sold 8000 hides friday lost money . Mink 7$ squirrel 1$ red squirrel 2$ so i might be in the market for a squirrel dog !!!LOL

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01-16-2010 08:58 PM

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JiM
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I sold 29 this afternoon. Averaged $7.06, fleshed and dried. They paid 12-8-4. Better than I expected.

I didn't carry out anything under a large. I figure if I had carried everything out, my average would have droppped to around $5.00 or less.

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01-16-2010 09:03 PM

tsix
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Registered: May 2008
Location: southeast OHIO
Posts: 22

dogs

By the way I agree you don't have to kill every coon you come to. If you tree 3 coon in the same tree kill 1 leave the other 2 for next drop. I will give a coon to a dog that did a good job. But they souldn't need every coon they tree, they will do it because they want to old yeller down the road has chased my truck every day for years and has not got a taste yet!

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01-16-2010 09:07 PM

Brian France
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Registered: Oct 2009
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Coondawg Hunter, You did brag on your dogs and you bragged in all of your previous messages on here!!! I definately wasn't bragging on how many coon my dogs can tree, I was making it a point to explain that your supposed high power hounds don't need all the coon you claim killing. I won't get in a little pissing match with a little piss ant on a computer, put your money where your big mouth is!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't understand what you meant by the hounds are yours and I'm next? If you need to run your mouth I'll just let you know that I dont charge for dental work and I will be more than happy to turn my dogs loose against yours ANYTIME! I'm usually around this time of year all day long so if you want me , come and get it!!!!!! Belfast, NY

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01-16-2010 09:22 PM

David Boggs
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Sandy Hook, KY
Posts: 1009

if the coon

are in that big of numbers live trap them then call me i will come get them and restock they are needed here in places and live coon are worth more alive to me than deed coon then you all will not burn out your dogs killing so maney coon 2 them dogs.just send me a pm and we will talk.coon dog hunter next corn fild huntting time i would love to bring 2 young dogs and help you thin them coon out man that kind of coon country would get a young dog cranking fast and then i would take you huntting here butt it would half to be for deer turkey or smothing ealse becides coon becalws you live in coon heaven and yes i would put you up and also feed you good long as you like country cooking,david

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01-17-2010 04:26 AM

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T.Beyer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Crystal Michigan
Posts: 4483

quote:
Originally posted by Brian France
Coondawg Hunter, You did brag on your dogs and you bragged in all of your previous messages on here!!! I definately wasn't bragging on how many coon my dogs can tree, I was making it a point to explain that your supposed high power hounds don't need all the coon you claim killing. I won't get in a little pissing match with a little piss ant on a computer, put your money where your big mouth is!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't understand what you meant by the hounds are yours and I'm next? If you need to run your mouth I'll just let you know that I dont charge for dental work and I will be more than happy to turn my dogs loose against yours ANYTIME! I'm usually around this time of year all day long so if you want me , come and get it!!!!!! Belfast, NY

Brian that's funny right there! No charge for dental work... instant classic!

Seriously, if you are gonna kill em you might just as well sell them. I am no tree hugger by any stretch of the imagination, but those are living creatures, no sense in killing them for nothing. I understand they do damage and must be controlled, but as I said, they are living creatures.

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01-17-2010 05:15 AM

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roverdog
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Brian France what type of anesthesia do you use before performing dental work ?

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01-18-2010 05:04 AM

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Brian France
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Registered: Oct 2009
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Hi Tom, yeah I know I let his mouth get under my hide a little but it never takes much to get my blood boiling. Tom, I always check out your video's and I like it and I guess you hunt more than I ever thought you did. Ivan Q. and I hunted Saturday night and he told me that you would walk a dog to death! Funny to hear Ivan tell a story. Well gotta take pup for a walk c ya!

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01-18-2010 03:10 PM

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