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quote:

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Originally posted by smokin-1-mo
I AM WITH JIM ON THIS THREAD......IF COON HIDES WHERE NOT WORTH A DIME I DONT THINK IT WOULD MATTER TO MOST COONHUNTERS OUR HURT THE DOG MARKET........FOR WHAT THEY ARE WORTH NOW I DONT UNDERSTAND A REAL COONHUNTER KILLING 100 COON EVERY COON SEASON OR EVEN 30.....

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Originally posted by intellectualist
Your talking about people with 10 dogs being too many. Well 4 is two maybe three more than I would want at one time. Why do you have so many?

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Originally posted by treberta
I agree. 4 is too many at one time, in my oppinion.

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yea my buddy has 6 and he take 2 or 3 one night and the next night take diffrent dogs each time but half of these dogs are his sone they go with him iv seen this before this kid take 4 dogs with them and send one here and go down the road send nother one go down the raod ans so and so forth and by the time he got back to the first dog it was treed he would walk in and shoot the coon out and go to the other dogs wen we go with buddys we usualy one gets dumped and then we wait till it gets treed than we go and dump ours but i have done this dump one and the other guy i was with we went down the road and dump ours

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Originally posted by wildbill
just depends on the type of dogs or should say how they hunt..

"back in the day" as a buddy tells me like i'm getting old,,i used to hunt 3-4 dogs at a time ,all mine or a total of 4 between me and my friends...

well the way some of these nighthunt dogs are bred,2 dogs are too many to hunt at one time..i wont keep a dog that shoots thru the country like that..

i used to grab 4 dogs at dark and be back home around midnight and switch out for the other 3 or 4 that was still on the chain..

that was when i had a local job and not driving semi,,and gone all the time...

i know one guy that used to turn loose 8-10 dogs at a time and then sit around and chit chat till they were treeing somewhere and go and start shooting coons and bring the dogs back to the truck and go get the others as they got treed..

i guess if a person had 10 independent nighthunt dogs it would be too many dogs to hunt at one time,,

but if those 10 dogs were bred right so's they all didnt have to be hunted 4-5 night a week so as to remember what they were suppose to do on the weekend..

it wouldnt be too many dogs and
they might be trying to keep the good blood around so they didnt have to hunt 500 dogs to find a real one if their dog passed on or got killed...

how many of you can say you can leave your dog on a chain for a year and take it to the woods and it takes off and go's hunting like it was hunted everynight???

thats natural coondog bred in ,not fly by night what evers winning the hunt bred into the woodpile..

if you cant hunt 4 dogs at one time ,,maybe your hunting for your dog instead of your dogs hunting for you!!!!!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by treberta
Can I venture to say you hunt bluetics Bill?

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i will,,
if they dont head for the next county when you turn them loose,,lol
or boohoo all night on the same track,,lol,,

but thanks to a lot of true bluetick breeders those type dogs dont live long....

here's what i hunt ,mostly all joe house breeding or with a little old finley river blood in it,,
picture is old joe or on papers ,show champion saylors cruzen hawk 1,,his sisters pup in behind him,princess 2toes,joe was 13 in picture in '07' he died around 14 yrs old..joe started doing his thing around 7 months old..princess did it at 7 mths also,,shes 9yrs old now ..due to job i dont get to hunt like i used to,,but the dogs dont hold it against me..lol..i havent updated my website in awhile but you can see the peds on it ,at bottom of post,,copy and paste into your brozer..

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So if you cut 3 or 4 dogs loose you want them all to tree together right?

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Guys that cut 3 or 4 dogs together are prolly old school pleasure hunters and they prolly expect those dogs to hunt together. My Dad is 78 years old and he will never understand why we would put 4 dogs in the box and take turns hunting them 2 at a time. He did his hunting back in the 60's and early 70's before many on this board were born. Pack hunting is all he understands. If a guy wants his dog alone all the time, he prolly hunts it alone or maybe with one other dog but you hunt two dogs together regularly, they are gonna hunt together I don't care how "independant" they are. But who cares? Hunt'em how you wanna hunt'em. I get a laugh out of these guys that blow about how their dog will never be with another dog, never cover, never this, never that. They are doing a good job of advertising their inexperience because anyone who has been around hounds for any length of time knows that you can't ever say never when it comes to a dog.

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quote:

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Originally posted by treberta
So if you cut 3 or 4 dogs loose you want them all to tree together right?

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Originally posted by JiM
Guys that cut 3 or 4 dogs together are prolly old school pleasure hunters and they prolly expect those dogs to hunt together. My Dad is 78 years old and he will never understand why we would put 4 dogs in the box and take turns hunting them 2 at a time. He did his hunting back in the 60's and early 70's before many on this board were born. Pack hunting is all he understands. If a guy wants his dog alone all the time, he prolly hunts it alone or maybe with one other dog but you hunt two dogs together regularly, they are gonna hunt together I don't care how "independant" they are. But who cares? Hunt'em how you wanna hunt'em. I get a laugh out of these guys that blow about how their dog will never be with another dog, never cover, never this, never that. They are doing a good job of advertising their inexperience because anyone who has been around hounds for any length of time knows that you can't ever say never when it comes to a dog.

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Originally posted by JiM
Honestly, I can't agree with anything in that post.
I don't think I have ever known anyone that bought a pup for the purpose of useing it to make money on coonhides so I seriously doubt the hide price will have any effect of pup prices. Neither will the economy. AO had record numbers and the PKC World Hunt was as strong as ever. Coonhunters basicly ignore economic conditions.
As for those paper crosses sam is concerned with, again, show some one out there breeding coonhound puppies for profit.
Why concern yourself with what someone else is breeding? If it is junk, fine, you just go somewhere else for your pup. If you get hosed on a "young started dog" that isn't the least bit started, who's fault is that?

If the Amish bought horses the way many of you buy coondogs, the roads around here would be clogged with brokedown horses and Amish hitchhikers.

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my statement above was more for the sentence saying why concern yourself with what others are breeding. sorry for the confusion

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Guys that cut 3 or 4 dogs together are prolly old school pleasure hunters and they prolly expect those dogs to hunt together. My Dad is 78 years old and he will never understand why we would put 4 dogs in the box and take turns hunting them 2 at a time. He did his hunting back in the 60's and early 70's before many on this board were born. Pack hunting is all he understands. If a guy wants his dog alone all the time, he prolly hunts it alone or maybe with one other dog but you hunt two dogs together regularly, they are gonna hunt together I don't care how "independant" they are. But who cares? Hunt'em how you wanna hunt'em. I get a laugh out of these guys that blow about how their dog will never be with another dog, never cover, never this, never that. They are doing a good job of advertising their inexperience because anyone who has been around hounds for any length of time knows that you can't ever say never when it comes to a dog.

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So what your tryin to say is if a dog isn't hunted that it can't reproduce a coondawg??????????


I be willing to bet that there are just as many for real coondawgs that don't reproduce as there are non hunting females that don't. Just because a dog runs and trees a coon DOESN'T mean it will throw coondawgs.


It's ALLLLLL in the blood way before they ever start running and treeing.


Granted we all like to see the parents to our dogs run and tree like they are suppose to but just because they do that it doesn't mean they are going to reproduce.

We've had several World Champs that couldn't reproduce their way out of a paper bag.

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Hobo, I disagree. You have a much much greater chance at having a good litter out of a good solid male and female. In my oppinion the female has more to do with the success of a litter then a top male stud dog. It shouldn't matter what the pups grandpa or grandma did!!!!!!!!! It matters how good the parents are. Guys that breed these "brood females" make me want to pull ym hair out and then they wonder why only 1 pup out of 11 will even get the point to hunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't care how good the pedigree is if that female is not a coon dog then youre chance of having a successfull litter drops drastically.

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You can disagree all you want. Just because a dog runs and trees a coon doesn't mean its going to throw pups that do.

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my advise on this whole situation is if you are un-sure of buying a pup from a so called titled dog is schedule a hunt with him before buying a pup . I don't buy a pup unless it's out of one of my own females so i know what iam getting , or if it's a female iam fimilar with . The people inthe magazine that advetise BY PRIVATE TREATY are were your real breeder's are that are concerned with bettering the breed . I agree some are pushing paper's , i've spoken with a few that say i wil only breed if it will produce a all grand pedigree - thats a bunch of crap ! there are way to many dog's out there without all grand pedigree's that are top nouch coonhounds . I do agree that if we would breed more coondog's to coondog's we would have alot less culls out there .

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quote:

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Originally posted by HOBO
You can disagree all you want. Just because a dog runs and trees a coon doesn't mean its going to throw pups that do.

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Explain how hunting a dog makes it a better reproducer.

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Think of it this way.

Youre great grandad was a very good baseball player as well as youre grandpa. Youre dad hated baseball so he never played and then you come laong. Do you think you would have had a better chance at being a good baseball player if youre dad would have played and been good? I guarantee it, same as with worthless brood females. Can a brood female have a successfull litter ? Sure but you are doubling up on youre odds of having a top litter out of two good dogs.

tell all the coon hunters over the past 100 years that hunting and training there dogs had no outcome on todays dogs.

there's a reason guys can sell pups out of two top notch dogs for 1000$ over a top stud/brood cross for 200$.

I don't undersatand what is so hard to grasp for people that have coon hunted a month in there life to realize that youre chance of having a successfull litter of pups goes up drastically when you breed two consistent coon treeing dogs.

Why would someone breed a female that can't tree a coon is beyond me. How can they expect the pups to turn out if that female doesn't even tree a coon?

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If Sackett Jr had never seen a coon in his life, would it have prevented him from reproducing coondogs? If Niteheat Dixie had never seen a coon would that have prevented her from reproducing coondogs? If neither of them had ever been hunted, could they have still produced Rat Attack?

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quote:

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Originally posted by treberta
Think of it this way.

Youre great grandad was a very good baseball player as well as youre grandpa. Youre dad hated baseball so he never played and then you come laong. Do you think you would have had a better chance at being a good baseball player if youre dad would have played and been good? I guarantee it, same as with worthless brood females. Can a brood female have a successfull litter ? Sure but you are doubling up on youre odds of having a top litter out of two good dogs.

tell all the coon hunters over the past 100 years that hunting and training there dogs had no outcome on todays dogs.

there's a reason guys can sell pups out of two top notch dogs for 1000$ over a top stud/brood cross for 200$.

I don't undersatand what is so hard to grasp for people that have coon hunted a month in there life to realize that youre chance of having a successfull litter of pups goes up drastically when you breed two consistent coon treeing dogs.

Why would someone breed a female that can't tree a coon is beyond me. How can they expect the pups to turn out if that female doesn't even tree a coon?

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Brood females are coon huntings worst enemy. My piont is in my above example is that a line of tradition can come to a crashing hault due to one bad apple. Lines of good dogs are ruined damaged because of breeding these females that can't tree a coon. Most people that agree with breeding these 'PR'/brood females are the ones that do it. I don't get why it's so hard to understand, breed consistent coon tree dog to another consistent coon tree dog.

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Originally posted by JiM
If Sackett Jr had never seen a coon in his life, would it have prevented him from reproducing coondogs? If Niteheat Dixie had never seen a coon would that have prevented her from reproducing coondogs? If neither of them had ever been hunted, could they have still produced Rat Attack?

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Treberta,

I agree that it is easier selecting breeding stock when you have information regarding your breeding stocks strong and weak points. The more information the better. Therefore hunting our breeding stock just makes our jobs at selecting good dogs a little bit easier.

There are several buts. Hobo and Jim are right a dog's genetic potential is just that no matter how much that dog gets hunted. That is a fact. In the same token a top hunter is not always a top reproducer. The only way to judge a dog's reproducing capabilities is by hunting its offspring. I think that breeders that are unwilling to recognize that their top hunting dog is a poor reproducer hurts our collectible breeds as much if not more than guys who breed unproven females.

Personally, if I am going to gamble, I prefer to try to stack the deck as much in my favor as I can.

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