Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 28

guys last time i check dogs are NOT carring Timexs with them how do they know the five is up

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Registered: May 2008
Location: southcentral arkansas
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quote:

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Originally posted by larrypoe
I have to dissagree with you on a couple points. First, coondogs were not bred TO BE pack dogs. They were bred FROM pack dogs (running dogs). Packing (me too) is a fall back to those running dogs.

The first "tree" dogs were independant enough to leave the pack to tree game instead of running it all night, as well as independant enough to stay there while the others were running. They sure didnt spend all night seeing what the other dogs were up to.

From the beginning it was 1 or 2 dogs and a hunter catching fur.
The 'pack' came in with night hunts when it was decided for 4 dogs to hunt agianst each other. Not with each other AGIANST each other. Having quick strike and tree dogs came with the hunts, having dogs that had the meat was the main priority before that.

Either way the goal has always been to have the dog that trees the most coons.

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
I dont mind em packing but DANG if its after the 5 is up..Where in the world has it been for 5 min? It evidently was not packing if it takes em that long to get there...Its a covering me to dog that cant run a coon Jim why would you not vote for the rule? What could it hurt?

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Registered: Jan 2006
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John,

Sure they were rare then. The reason they were rare was because those foundation dogs, pulled from running packs, couldnt reproduce. It took years of breeding to "fix" those traits into the genetic makeup of the dogs we hunt today.

This doesnt change the fact that those dogs were in fact culls from running packs. Dogs who in spite all efforts to break them, preferred to leave the pack and tree instead of run all night.

2 other things compounded to add to that.

1) There wasnt many of them, which ment they had to be bred to running dogs to reproduce at all
2) Untill the late 1940's the three major breeds, walker,bluetick,and english, were all registered togather as English Fox and Coonhounds. This ment it was up to the individual breeder to decide were to place the enfasis, running dogs(pack) or tree dogs. Most just shot the tree dogs as "sports" and never talked about them untill the nite hunts started.

One other point. The reason most of those dogs took to treeing instead of running with the pack in the first place was because they were too SLOW to keep up. ie poor track dogs in the first place.

The slow, albet independent, ones started running critters that treed (assuming it wasnt just a natural born instinct in the first place) because of there natural desire to "catch"

the slow me too pack dogs just babbled along behind the pack. Could realy care less as long as they were close to there buddys.

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Registered: May 2008
Location: southcentral arkansas
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larry, makes sense, but i guess i still want a happy medium.lol i can't handle much of the track jacking, alone or in company.

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quote:

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Originally posted by john nannemann
larry, makes sense, but i guess i still want a happy medium.lol i can't handle much of the track jacking, alone or in company.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Panasoffkee, Florida
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quote:

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Originally posted by Scott Lindeman
guys last time i check dogs are NOT carring Timexs with them how do they know the five is up

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Come on Scott! Do you really want a dog who couldn't figure out a track for atleast five minutes to suddenly figure it out and tree with another dog? I know you better than that. If a dog can't demonstrate any better tracking ability then being five minutes behind another dog it not only needs minused but CULLED!!
I woulds vote for this rule anyday! I CAN'T STAND A ME TOO FRICKIN WANNA BE COONDOG!

PS wait a minute Scott perhaps you do prefer that kinda dog because that would explain your nickname... something about "one hit"...

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Last edited by Clay Lautzenhiser on 10-01-2009 at 03:30 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by john nannemann
i gotta agree with this guy. i've had/ still have hounds that will split and stay put. i had one that would be by himself 80% of the time. but the best scores will come from casts that stay closer together. i like a straight up "race" myself.

i think this rule change would FAVOR a slick treeing idiot. especially with the recast rule.

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Everybody obsesses about slick treeing but nobody has one! You would think all you guys with those accurate treedogs would LOVE those slick treeing idiots. I mean they can't possibly beat you. I fully support the breeding of those no-coon-treeing-monsters because I don't have to feed them and it would sure make it easier for my stuff to win.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

I can tell by this thread just how many folks on here have a freaking clue about coon hunting or what a coondog should do and it sure as CRAP should not honor another tree after 5.. I dont care if its slick,got 10 coons up it or 12 possums!!!!!!

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You would think that EVERYONE could atleast agree that a dog getting there 5 minutes after the tree closes (which is actually 10 minutes after the 1st dog treed) is so late as to deserve some sort of fault. But no! Some of you will actually make excuses for it and some will even defend it. This may be a clue as to why one breed dominates competion to the point of almost being unfair and the other breeds just can't seem to catch up.

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
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I don't care what rule they have for them in the comp. hunt but it would deserve ONE BULLET from me if it didn't get a lot better quick. ( :

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CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

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Registered: Sep 2009
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It only makes sense that if a dog arrives at a closed tree it should get minused on strike. Says what kind of a dog you have if you agree with it the way it is.

Or another option wold be put it in for next available position on tree and minus them. But wishing this rule change is like me wishing ukc would adapt the countdown rule. Just not going to happen for years

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: kansas
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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Everybody obsesses about slick treeing but nobody has one!

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: bronaugh,MO
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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
You would think that EVERYONE could atleast agree that a dog getting there 5 minutes after the tree closes (which is actually 10 minutes after the 1st dog treed) is so late as to deserve some sort of fault. But no! Some of you will actually make excuses for it and some will even defend it. This may be a clue as to why one breed dominates competion to the point of almost being unfair and the other breeds just can't seem to catch up.

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I totaly agree with you, well except for the 1 breed domination thing , I have ALWAYS thought it was BS for a dog to get a free pass if it came in after the cast arived, quit there track to go honor another dog, and all the other lovely little things our rules allow.

Its sure not allowed in my woods on my time. There are many many shallow graves in those same woods full of those who never learned that lesson.

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Registered: Jan 2007
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Dont score the dog + or - if it is late, recast the hounds with the late dog no score

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You're right Larry. That comment about one breed domination was completely out of line. I'm starting to feel like myself again....

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Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
You're right Larry. That comment about one breed domination was completely out of line. I'm starting to feel like myself again....

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Good to hear, lol, thought they had you on too many happy pills or something.

Kinda missed the Jim who flat called a spade a spade and who cares if it pees in someones cheerios or not.

brutal honestly. world needs more of it.

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always want my dog to get by his or herself,if i turn loose 3 times i want my dog buy itse4lf at least twice. its hard to beat a dog that gets by hyimself alot. its gunnna take 100 tree eveytime he trees. and as for dogs being 10 mins late to a tree, id say if they cant cover in the first 30 or 40 seconds, the should go on, and if one of mine came in ten minutes late more than once, it would never leave the woods i was hunting in. this is exactly whats wrong with dogs, 2 much packing and me too'n.

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Work's for me ! The debate about whether a tree was slick & the late dog shouldn't be penalized & everything else that could come with that couldn't even be brought up.

"STRAIGHT UP MINUS" if they are there after the five regardless would be a start no doubt. I'm with the rest in regards to a dog that punch's in late all the time. Try that at work & see how long you last ? Same thing only different!


"THEN IF" we could get rid of that go ahead & yap all night rule as soon as their unsnapped along with the other I think there would be a dramatic change back to honest coondog's that pull their weight.

Wouldn't it be awsome "IF" every time a dog opened it was sounding off because of scent not because they are to slow or outa shape? Then their is that genetic/ leather end of the leash thing that come's into play as well with lack of regard for bein concerned about said lip flippin when they shouldn't be. It's amazing what ya can learn them not to do if'n a lil effort is put forth !

I started in "78" & I can tell you when you had three hour hunt's & penalized for babblin it was actually pretty rare to draw one.

Jim's rule suggestion would be one of the best rule change's in a posative direction that I can ever recall ?! That would sure dampin 'Ol "Lucky's" chance's of accomplishing much now wouldn't it ?



Me too'n,babblin idiot's,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"YOUR OUTA THERE"!!

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Just try to imagine a rule that minuses a dog anytime it covers a closed tree. Period! Doesn't matter if the tree is plussed, minused or circled. Dog gets there after the 5 is up, MINUS STRIKE POINTS!
I'd venture a guess that such a rule would change the outcome of half the hunts ever hunted. And i can imagine that I might hate such a rule if it ever came about but I would sure like to try it and see. And then again....maybe not.

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Last edited by T Felderman on 10-01-2009 at 07:21 PM

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If you have a coon, it's minused now!

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: north dakota
Posts: 2363

i say have a 2min. tree rule , were the tree is closed after 2 min.... nothing burns me up more than your dog getting in ther deep to find a coon when they aren't moving good, and gets treed with the coon and some no good sap sucker comes in there late like 4 or just under 5 and get a peice of it. when all they did is hear that dog and run over there and tree with him..some times them me 2er's will come back and bite you in the hind end... most the time they don't draw many minus either

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 28

Clay one thing for sure not to many time you will see that happen to me with the hound i am leading come in after the five is up i just dont remember when the last time that happen ps clay have you hit that one hit wonder yet dont think so ... so am still head of you my friend

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Registered: May 2008
Location: southcentral arkansas
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quote:

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Originally posted by SLICK50
You need to seriousley look at that statement. Unreal. It's the complete opposite matter of fact it has nothing to do with slick treeing one bit!! JiM was saying after 5 minutes if a dog comes into a tree it has obviously quite its track and should be minused.

Please explain to us all how that would favor a slick treeing idiot??????????????? Unreal

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Last edited by john nannemann on 10-02-2009 at 03:03 AM

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