Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

No, no no

A dog CAN be minused at any time if the judge believes him to be struck on the babble.

Whether it's the first 5 seconds, 5 minutes or 50 minutes. If the dog is babblin it can and SHOULD be minused.

The minute is the amount of time that dogs are ALLOWED to babble and not be struck in, but if they are babblin and struck in during the minute you can minus them immediately.

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Madison GA
Posts: 27

I am aware of that.... what I was asking was if the dog is NOT struck in during the minute but is continuously barking can that dog be minused before the minute elapses?

And if a handler does strike his dog in during the minute how would you as a judge go about distinguishing whether the dog is carrying the track out or not. (I know what I would do, just wondering what everyone else thinks.)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

No, that minute is the very reason we have so many babblers now. No dog is required to be struck in during the minute. They can bark as much as they want to. BUT if they are struck they are subject to being minused just like any other time, once they are struck in they are jubject to being judged.

Until the minute expires or the dog is struck it can open as much as it wants to without repercussion.

As soon as the minute is up though the dog has 3 barks and it must be struck. The reason it is hard to minus babblers now is because by the time a minute is up they are usually in there deep enough that they could be on a track. But, if you as a judge believe they still aren't on a track but are babbling you have the right to minus them.

If at any time I think a dog is struck on the babble I will minus it immediately. No warning, I will just minus it. If the cast wants to vote they are welcome to do so, but if you hesitate then you lost your chance because the longer you hesitate the farther the dog gets in there and the more the handler that struck on the babble can try and argue he MIGHT be on a track.

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Madison GA
Posts: 27

I totally agree with you, if a dog opens up before the minute is up and is declared struck I would minus the dog. I actually had this happen to me before on a hunt, where the judge struck his dog in before the minute expired and I stated that I thought the dog was babbling. The judge quickly stated that the only way you could prove that the dog was babbling and not on track was to listen to see if the dog keeps following the track. In my mind, if there was a track there then why didn't the other three dogs open up on it. Just my opinion. I assume he wanted me to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I have never seen the "benefit of the doubt" rule in the rulebook.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 100

Our judge did it wrong according to what you guys are saying then. He only minused the dog once and then let him strike in with the other dogs. He was clearly babbling when he cut loose because he made a few laps around us in the field just running crazy , then lined out after the other dogs.

Just currious , where is the rule about the 1 minute grace period on the scorecard. I looked last night and couldnt find it off hand.?

And for those that say you cant know for sure a dog is babbling , jim has said it many times on here. A judge does not have to know anything at all . It is a judgement call and he can make a decision on it anyway he likes and if you dont like it , you vote and or question the call , but it is a judgement call for the judge to make.

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Ky.
Posts: 407

cant judge a dog by what other dogs are doing

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Madison GA
Posts: 27

4j - First offense failure to strike a dog on or before the third bark, after the first minute each time dog(s) is released will result in those points being awarded and minused.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

i don,t like babblers and won,t hunt one but...i could not with a clear conscious minus a dog that struck and did not shut up till treed... i have my ideas what is happening but i would rather loose and feel good about what i done then when an wonder or have my cast member wonder if i screwed him...all dogs don,t open on track the same... i lost last night for this very reason but i slept good when i got home

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

I wouldn't have any trouble sleeping at all. I wouldn't minus the dog unless I really thought it was babbling.

Since I made an honest call it wouldn't bother me a bit.

That stupid minute is the worst rule ever put on paper in any sport.

Hey, I have an idea, let's make it easier to hunt babblin dogs and harder to minus them. Let's let them break the rules for a full minute each drop. That's a great idea......................

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 100

quote:

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Originally posted by BAWL_TRACK
cant judge a dog by what other dogs are doing

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

and ig i can prove he done it i will and have minused them like strikeing in the minute and then no track but if they never shut up thats a whole different ball game

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 100

How can anyone not know the dog is babbling when it was barking going down the road in the dogbox all the way from the club and then we cut loose and the dog has never shut up and then it runs crazy circles around us in an open field still barking.

I will just say this , if my dog did that I want him minused even if he does smell a coon or not. To me it is an easy judgement call to make. I agree with Rip. Minus him and send him home early.

Jim was right when he said above , you better have your war bonnet on when you minus for babbling. Guys just cannot stand it , it seems.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 100

pATCHES , you are right about a few dogs that can get around the babble rule by lining out and not shutting up. Those stupid dogs usually end up being grand nite champion and its sad. I would quit hunting if i had to hunt crap like that.

but this dog last night made some laps around us in the field and i think he should be penciled minus. and remember as Jim said , a judge doesnt have to prove anything , he just makes a judgement call. The call either stands , or you vote and or question the call.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

i wasn't talking about this particular dog i was talking in general... but the judge to my way of thinking is to judge the rules... if a judgement call has to be made it should be done without the benefit of a doubt

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 100

quote:

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Originally posted by patches9452
i wasn't talking about this particular dog i was talking in general... but the judge to my way of thinking is to judge the rules... if a judgement call has to be made it should be done without the benefit of a doubt

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 621

IF THE DOG IS TRAILING AND NEVER MISSES A BARK AND ENDS OF GETTING TREED AND HAS A COON , YOU CAN NOT MINUS DOG A FOR BABBLING , AND IF YOU DO THEN YOU MUST HAVE PUT YOUR DANG NOSE TO THE GROUND AND SAID NOPE I SMELL IT THERE IS NO COON TRACK THERE, YOU CAN NOT MINUS A

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

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Originally posted by Dbradbury3
IF THE DOG IS TRAILING AND NEVER MISSES A BARK AND ENDS OF GETTING TREED AND HAS A COON , YOU CAN NOT MINUS DOG A FOR BABBLING , AND IF YOU DO THEN YOU MUST HAVE PUT YOUR DANG NOSE TO THE GROUND AND SAID NOPE I SMELL IT THERE IS NO COON TRACK THERE, YOU CAN NOT MINUS A

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Ky.
Posts: 407

well thats commen sense that the handler hasnt won a vote yet cause the others dont wont him win lol

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

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Originally posted by BAWL_TRACK
well thats commen sense that the handler hasnt won a vote yet cause the others dont wont him win lol

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 954

quote:

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Originally posted by copetreed
I totally agree with you, if a dog opens up before the minute is up and is declared struck I would minus the dog. I actually had this happen to me before on a hunt, where the judge struck his dog in before the minute expired and I stated that I thought the dog was babbling. The judge quickly stated that the only way you could prove that the dog was babbling and not on track was to listen to see if the dog keeps following the track. In my mind, if there was a track there then why didn't the other three dogs open up on it. Just my opinion. I assume he wanted me to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I have never seen the "benefit of the doubt" rule in the rulebook.

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 954

quote:

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Originally posted by Dbradbury3
IF THE DOG IS TRAILING AND NEVER MISSES A BARK AND ENDS OF GETTING TREED AND HAS A COON , YOU CAN NOT MINUS DOG A FOR BABBLING , AND IF YOU DO THEN YOU MUST HAVE PUT YOUR DANG NOSE TO THE GROUND AND SAID NOPE I SMELL IT THERE IS NO COON TRACK THERE, YOU CAN NOT MINUS A

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: indiana
Posts: 580

it will be a cold day he## before you minus my dog if it is barking and moveing around and works it's out then the other dogs open up . not all dogs smell the same . now if it went a strait line opening up every breath yes then i would say babbleing but working around in a field no way

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Madison GA
Posts: 27

quote:

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Originally posted by Todd Miller
If my hound strikes before that minute is up he or she is getting struck in. I will play the eight minute rule out. Unless there is no track evident. what you are saying in this paragraph is that a dog opens in the 1st minute he or she is babbling. Thats not true at all.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 100

quote:

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Originally posted by truebluefordman
it will be a cold day he## before you minus my dog if it is barking and moveing around and works it's out then the other dogs open up . not all dogs smell the same . now if it went a strait line opening up every breath yes then i would say babbleing but working around in a field no way

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 100

This post just amazes me that so many people fail to understand the role of a judge and the babble rule.

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