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Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:
Originally posted by trackdriver
So the gov't should leave the private sector free to do whatever they please. Hasn't the private sector been able to do this for years?

Not really. Lawyers have really distorted the picture here.

Billions of dollars of tests each year are done more for legal reasons than medical ones.

Only a lawyer could come up with the idea that someone should pay a fee to them over years, then when they need the money to pay for the rightly acrued cost they would be able to deny the payment. Besides that, only a lawyer could come up with justification for the fact that the insurance industry is a middle man, they don't add anything to the care of the patient, to the contrary they work against caring for the patient lots of times, and they make more money than the hospitals and people that actually help people get better. If you want to know what gubment healthcare would be just think of the worst insurance company you can think of, one that takes takes takes, never pays for anything and makes patients and providers lives miserable, then place them in the rabid stage on steroids, with no one to answer to and you would get CLOSE to what the gubment healthcare would be like LOL.

Eliminating the lottery that is known as malpractice now would go a long way to making healthcare more affordable.

Nothing wrong with legitimate suits, the problem is that there is no consequence for filing false suits and "lottery" suits just hoping for a sympathetic jury.

If you were to be able to figgure up how much all the defensive medicine, defending unfounded lawsuits as well as the actual verdicts rendered in malpractice cases I would bet that you would find it is more than any other piece of the healthcare pie.

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Last edited by Rip on 07-26-2009 at 11:41 PM

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07-26-2009 11:39 PM

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blueboy90
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Edgewater , fl
Posts: 216

RECORD

RECORD PROFITS,INCREASING RATES AND LESS COVERAGE FOR INSURANCE COMPAINES.

NOT TO MENTION OUR TAX DOLLARS PAYING FOR THE HEALTHCARE IN IRAQ RIGHT NOW.

IF NOT FOR MY DAD'S HEALTHCARE THROUGH THE UNION,MY MOM WOULD HAVE NO INSURANCE.NO WAY AN INSURANCE COMPANY WOULD TAKE WITH ALL HER CONDITIONS.OR THE POOR LADY THAT PAID 700 A MONTH FOR HEALTHCARE TO FINDOUT IT DOESNT COVER HER CANCER TREATMENTS.GO OUT TO PLACES LIKE LOWES WALMART AND HOME DEPOT AND GROCERY STORES AND SEE ALL THESE OLD PEOPLE WORKING,ASK THEM WHY AND MOST WILL SAY FOR HEALTHCARE.

IT TAKES A GREEDY SELFISH PERSON TO SIT THERE AND SAY EVERYBODY DOESNT DESERVE HEALTHCARE.,

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07-26-2009 11:42 PM

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john nannemann
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: southcentral arkansas
Posts: 1571

quote:
Originally posted by trackdriver
So the gov't should leave the private sector free to do whatever they please. Hasn't the private sector been able to do this for years?

no, track, it hasn't for a very long time now. the charity of the american people has a long and wonderful history, as does the resistance to coercion and compulsion by the government. therein lies the problem. track, this issue carries way more negatives on many, many levels then it does positive. individual rights issues on all fronts. it is impossible to resolve this issue without violating individual rights on some one of those levels and therefore should be out of the purview of the federal government on purely moral grounds if nothing else.

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07-26-2009 11:46 PM

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Lee Stocking
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3232

Re: RECORD

quote:
Originally posted by blueboy90

IT TAKES A GREEDY SELFISH PERSON TO SIT THERE AND SAY EVERYBODY DOESNT DESERVE HEALTHCARE.,

I dont read anywhere on this thread that says this....

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07-26-2009 11:48 PM

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Joe S.
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Owosso MI
Posts: 747

quote:
Originally posted by liberalcreek
What kind of person needing healthcare for him and his family would let them do without but see to it that they had internet, cell phones, satellite TV, etc, etc?? Not much of a man, that is for sure.

that's right lieberal good thing i dont have kids....maybe i should get healthcare for my dogs.

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07-26-2009 11:53 PM

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blueboy90
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Edgewater , fl
Posts: 216

RESPONSES ARE,I HAVE GREAT HEALTH CARE,WHY CHANGE IT.

IM WILING TO GIVE UP A LITTLE TO HELP MORE PEOPLE OUT,AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE WITHOUT HEALTH CARE ISNT THERE CHOICE,THEY CANT SIMPLY AFFORD IT.

POOR LADY I KNOW.HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN PILLS AND FOOD,SO SHE CUT OUT THE MOST EXPENSIVE PILL SHE HAD,WHICH WAS HER BLOOD PRESSURE MEDICINE,NEEDLESS TO SAY,SHE DIES OF A HEART ATTACK SOON THEREAFTER.

NO WAY A PERSON AT MCDONALDS WITH ANY KIND OF MEDICAL CONDITION CAN AFFORD HEALTH CARE.I HAVE HEARD RESPONES FROM MANY,THEY WORK AT MCDONALDS,THAT KINDS OF JOB DOESNT DESERVE HEALTHCARE.

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07-26-2009 11:55 PM

Ebo Walker
Banned

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Bluff City, Tn.
Posts: 215

quote:
Originally posted by blueboy90
RESPONSES ARE,I HAVE GREAT HEALTH CARE,WHY CHANGE IT.

IM WILING TO GIVE UP A LITTLE TO HELP MORE PEOPLE OUT,AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE WITHOUT HEALTH CARE ISNT THERE CHOICE,THEY CANT SIMPLY AFFORD IT.

POOR LADY I KNOW.HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN PILLS AND FOOD,SO SHE CUT OUT THE MOST EXPENSIVE PILL SHE HAD,WHICH WAS HER BLOOD PRESSURE MEDICINE,NEEDLESS TO SAY,SHE DIES OF A HEART ATTACK SOON THEREAFTER.

NO WAY A PERSON AT MCDONALDS WITH ANY KIND OF MEDICAL CONDITION CAN AFFORD HEALTH CARE.I HAVE HEARD RESPONES FROM MANY,THEY WORK AT MCDONALDS,THAT KINDS OF JOB DOESNT DESERVE HEALTHCARE.

Blueboy. Nobody wokring at McDonalds would be denied ANY life saving procedure or treatment because they dont have healthcare.

Under Obama's plan THEY WOULD. His bill is pretty clear. Depending on your age and the cost, you may or may not be granted treatment.

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07-26-2009 11:59 PM

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blueman1tick
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: western pa
Posts: 189

quote:
Originally posted by liberalcreek
What kind of person needing healthcare for him and his family would let them do without but see to it that they had internet, cell phones, satellite TV, etc, etc?? Not much of a man, that is for sure.

Amen

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07-26-2009 11:59 PM

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Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Blueboy, McDonalds is not a career job.

Over half the people that are uninsured in this country are uninsured by CHOICE. Meaning they COULD afford it if they just WOULD afford it.

People should be responsible for their actions. I remember when I was 18 and got my first factory job. I was going to not pay the insurance and buy another truck. Momma had a hissy fit and I saw the light. Lots of 18 year olds don't see that light and they make up a large portion of the uninsured. It's not the publics fault that they decided they wanted a new truck, cellphone, TV, stereo etc instead of insurance.

There are many many more horror stories about gubment healthcare than there are about US healthcare. What you are missing is that even an UNINSURED PERSON IN THE US WITH CANCER HAS A 5 TIMES BETTER CHANCE OF SURVIVAL THAN THOSE WITH FULL GUBMENT HEALTHCARE IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

That's right. Those other countries they die waiting in line to have surgery or see the oncologist, or have their cancer treatment denied because they are over age 55 etc.

I feel bad for someone that can't afford their meds. There are plenty of programs out there that will give them meds free, or they can try and get them changed to generics on the 4 dollar list etc etc etc. There are many, many ways to get help if someone really wants it. They do need to ask though and not expect it to be just handed to them with no effort on their part.

So you want the gubment to steal from some people in order to "give" healthcare to others. What's next? I mean a house is more important than healthcare. You think they should just be allowed to walk in and live anywhere they want? Food is WAY more important than healthcare, I mean without food you die in a couple of weeks. Should they just walk in and grab what they want out of the grocery store for free? It's no different.

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Last edited by Rip on 07-27-2009 at 12:03 AM

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07-27-2009 12:00 AM

blueboy90
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Edgewater , fl
Posts: 216

yes your would be given the treatment wether u have insurance or not,but that means me and u will be paying for it anywaz at a higher rate.

remember,its alot easy to keep people healthy than it is to make people healthy.

look how henry ford profits grew after he gave healthcare to his employees.

quote:
Originally posted by Ebo Walker
Blueboy. Nobody wokring at McDonalds would be denied ANY life saving procedure or treatment because they dont have healthcare.

Under Obama's plan THEY WOULD. His bill is pretty clear. Depending on your age and the cost, you may or may not be granted treatment.

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07-27-2009 12:04 AM

Ebo Walker
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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Bluff City, Tn.
Posts: 215

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
and not expect it to be just handed to them with no effort on their part.

.

That goes against what the Democrats have conditioned people to believe for the last 40 years.

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07-27-2009 12:04 AM

Ebo Walker
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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Bluff City, Tn.
Posts: 215

quote:
Originally posted by blueboy90
yes your would be given the treatment wether u have insurance or not,but that means me and u will be paying for it anywaz at a higher rate.

So let me get this straight.

You are willing to take Obama's healthcare plan, a plan he says his own family will not take part in because he wants THE BEST CARE for HIS family, and accept the fact that the Govt will determine if you are too old and worthy or not of ANY and ALL medical procedures you may need in the coming future.

You are fine with the fact that the Govt will be mandating death counseling and have no problem knowing that Obama's leading healthcare adviser believes people 65 and older shouldn't be given life saving, costly medical procedures??

If you support Obama's version of healthcare that is what YOU ARE WANTING.

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07-27-2009 12:08 AM

blueboy90
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Edgewater , fl
Posts: 216

iif they are dying

if everyone is dying waiting for treatments,then why are americanes average life expectancy shorter than any country with national healthcare?

why have we been paying for healthcare in iraq??

47 million people without healthcare and thre insurance compaines have record profits and the way the econony is,they are rasing rates,u tell me if thats right..

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07-27-2009 12:08 AM

blueboy90
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Edgewater , fl
Posts: 216

i wont need it

i wont need the healthcare either.i belong to a union and we are self insured,but if it means young kids and elderly people have a chance at recieving healthcare,than yes i am.it isnt all about me buddy and what benifits me the most.

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07-27-2009 12:10 AM

Ebo Walker
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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Bluff City, Tn.
Posts: 215

Re: iif they are dying

quote:
Originally posted by blueboy90

why have we been paying for healthcare in iraq??

Your worried about Iraq, even though Obama's healthcare plan will cover ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS in this country as well as paying for abortions in FOREIGN COUNTRIES??

After you chew on that a minute,show us some data that shows how much we are spending on"healthcare" in Iraq.

Obama just promised Africa nearly 60 BILLION in medical related aide. Where is your outrage about that?

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07-27-2009 12:11 AM

Ebo Walker
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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Bluff City, Tn.
Posts: 215

Re: i wont need it

quote:
Originally posted by blueboy90
i wont need the healthcare either.i belong to a union and we are self insured,but if it means young kids and elderly people have a chance at recieving healthcare,than yes i am.it isnt all about me buddy and what benifits me the most.

You arent paying attention. under Obama's care people over 65 will receive LESS CARE than they do now, insured or not.

PAY ATTENTION.

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07-27-2009 12:12 AM

Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Re: iif they are dying

quote:
Originally posted by blueboy90
if everyone is dying waiting for treatments,then why are americanes average life expectancy shorter than any country with national healthcare?

why have we been paying for healthcare in iraq??

47 million people without healthcare and thre insurance compaines have record profits and the way the econony is,they are rasing rates,u tell me if thats right..

We have a shorter life expectancy for a couple of reasons.

#1, we COUNT our premature babies. Those other countries DON'T COUNT THEM AS ALIVE. So those 26 week premies are counted as deaths in our country. In theirs a 36 weeker, premature for sure but nothing in our country, DOESN'T COUNT AS EVER BEING ALIVE SO IT DOESN'T COUNT AS A DEATH. That does two things, it makes their life expectancy seem better, and it makes their infant mortality seem better, but if you have a premature baby there is no place on earth you would rather be than HERE IN THE US, because we have the best outcomes by far. (Of course we have more practice, those countries won't even try to get them to live, it costs too much, it's one of their gubment things)

#2, all the violence over here and the traffic deaths make a big dent in our life expectancy. Many of those countries drive much less than us, and many of them don't have the murder rate we do.

If you look at their survival rates after contracting cancer it's nowhere close to ours. Same thing for heart conditions, etc etc etc. Our healthcare is just plain better at treating diseases and conditions, end of story.

Without the free market those developments wouldn't have taken place.

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Last edited by Rip on 07-27-2009 at 12:16 AM

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07-27-2009 12:13 AM

Ebo Walker
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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Bluff City, Tn.
Posts: 215

Re: iif they are dying

quote:
Originally posted by blueboy90

47 million people without healthcare ..

Another deceptive number thrown out by the Democrats and Liberals.

That number includes ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS...8-10 MILLION.

Nearly half of those uninsured people are only TEMPORARILY uninsured while they transfer jobs or dropped their insurance on their own.

17.5million of those uninsured make over $50,000 a year and another 9 Million make over $70,000 a year. Most of those are YOUNGER workers who feel "bulletproof" and voluntarily decline any insurance .

Another 14 million are fully eligible for government assistance through programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP but do not partake in it VOLUNTARILY.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...u
re.html

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07-27-2009 12:19 AM

john nannemann
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: southcentral arkansas
Posts: 1571

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
Blueboy, McDonalds is not a career job.

Over half the people that are uninsured in this country are uninsured by CHOICE. Meaning they COULD afford it if they just WOULD afford it.

People should be responsible for their actions. I remember when I was 18 and got my first factory job. I was going to not pay the insurance and buy another truck. Momma had a hissy fit and I saw the light. Lots of 18 year olds don't see that light and they make up a large portion of the uninsured. It's not the publics fault that they decided they wanted a new truck, cellphone, TV, stereo etc instead of insurance.

There are many many more horror stories about gubment healthcare than there are about US healthcare. What you are missing is that even an UNINSURED PERSON IN THE US WITH CANCER HAS A 5 TIMES BETTER CHANCE OF SURVIVAL THAN THOSE WITH FULL GUBMENT HEALTHCARE IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

That's right. Those other countries they die waiting in line to have surgery or see the oncologist, or have their cancer treatment denied because they are over age 55 etc.

I feel bad for someone that can't afford their meds. There are plenty of programs out there that will give them meds free, or they can try and get them changed to generics on the 4 dollar list etc etc etc. There are many, many ways to get help if someone really wants it. They do need to ask though and not expect it to be just handed to them with no effort on their part.

So you want the gubment to steal from some people in order to "give" healthcare to others. What's next? I mean a house is more important than healthcare. You think they should just be allowed to walk in and live anywhere they want? Food is WAY more important than healthcare, I mean without food you die in a couple of weeks. Should they just walk in and grab what they want out of the grocery store for free? It's no different.

dr. rip, when john galt comes after you please tell him to look me up over here in arkansas.

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07-27-2009 12:35 AM

trackdriver
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Registered: Jan 2004
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Posts: 3086

So we don't need a overhaul in healthcare. Let the private sector work it out. Like the thread said obama gov't will decide how we die when the system we that's in place makes the same decisions. I don't normally agree with ebo but the number are there. We need more deregulation in the healthcare field.

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07-27-2009 12:40 AM

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Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:
Originally posted by trackdriver
So we don't need a overhaul in healthcare. Let the private sector work it out. Like the thread said obama gov't will decide how we die when the system we that's in place makes the same decisions. I don't normally agree with ebo but the number are there. We need more deregulation in the healthcare field.

Well not sure if you realize buy you are going against gubment care here again. You said DE REGULATION. By definition that is less gubment.

Why yes, I do agree with that.

And overhauling the theft that is known as malpractice litigation would be a major overhaul of the healthcare system as well because it would significantly and I do mean very significantly, reduce the amount spent on healthcare.

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07-27-2009 12:48 AM

trackdriver
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Trial lawyers? It does feel good to agree with fellow coonhunters sometimes but back to the grind.

Last edited by trackdriver on 07-27-2009 at 01:13 AM

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07-27-2009 12:54 AM

rance56
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4044

oliver its funny how you join a union and you suddenly become so enlightened that you do a complete 180 on all your past viewpoints and capitlism suddenly becomes the devil.

first i would like to ask you just how many different healthcare plans outside of the union that you have been on under your own policy?

also please list the names of all those people you personally know that do not have health insurance.

everyone agrees we need healtchare reform and im sure everyone would like to give health insurance to everyone-who wouldnt want that? but the key thing is how do you do it without bankrupting the country and diminishing the quality of care for the vast majority of the country that can afford and is content with the current state of affairs.

obama has NO PLAN IN PLACE, he is selling us a utopian idea and trying to lie to us that it will save us money and increase the quality. the 47 million uninsureed number yall keep throwing out there is so misleading. just like the life expentacy number-do you think the super sizd value meals, beers and cigarettes are playing a major role in that life expentacy? yea thats waht i thought.
also what are you going to do about the illegals? are they going to be given healthcare?

children are already covered. we have medicaid and medicare for the poor and rich. lets fix those programs. lets get tort reform. ill chip in alittle more to help those out BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF QUALITY AND ACCESS OF CARE TO ME AND MY FAMILY.

and if you want to play the what ifs about mom, how about under a govt plan her getting denied treatment to all the specialists she sees?

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07-27-2009 01:00 AM

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hotshot1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 90

quote:
Originally posted by Ebo Walker
No. It boils down to those that will do and those that wont do.

The only difference between a successful business owner or well paid worker and a low wage earning/barely making it wokrer is drive, dedication, and willpower.

We all have the same ability to make the amount of money we want to.

So you believe that every person whose business ever went under or who failed at anything was just a lazy stupid bum right?

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07-27-2009 01:13 AM

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liberalcreek
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quote:
Originally posted by hotshot1
So you believe that every person whose business ever went under or who failed at anything was just a lazy stupid bum right?

I wish I had the glasses you used to read with. jkjkjkjkjkjk

The msot successful businessmen in America have all filed bankruptcy or lost everything more than once.

People who take risks get rewarded. Obama wants to do away with risk. He wants personal liberty squashed and everyone to be equally "poor".

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07-27-2009 01:15 AM