Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Iron Station, North Carolina
Posts: 893

After reading all these posts slamming all these titled dogs it is evident to me that folks are just plain jealous over a hound with a title. I have a dual gr ch and a nitech/gr ch with 4 wins toward gr nite ch. These are the two best dogs I have ever owned. Iv'e been hunting for about 20-25 years and these dogs are head and shoulders above the the hounds I've had in the past. Now don't get me wrong I don't have perfect dogs. They make mistakes and have bad nights just like any dog. So for those of you who are going on heresay and judging a dog by seeing it have one bad night I think you should ease up on these titled dogs.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

i hunt more than most,less than some,but i do it because i love to hunt hounds.i dont give a hoot about filling a freezer with hides.everyone ive ever seen that was worried about filling the freezer did so by killing every coon they treed and also a lot that they didnt tree.
you telling me that it dont impress you a bit that ive got a grand nite or 2 in my kennel because i mite have cheated to get those titles doesnt bother me a bit,because im tellin you it dont impress me even a little bit if you tell me you kill a thousand coon each kill season because chances are if you treed 10 in 1 tree you killed all ten of those and probably killed 2 or 3 more you saw sittin up on the way back to the truck.
the nite hunts were developed by competetive coon hunters to try and determine who actually had a better coon dog.the way they are set up is far from perfect and a some times the best coondog does not win,but it is a much much better way than seeing who can kill the most coon.

redtick
i have hunted or hunted with all those dogs jim mentioned.every one of them is a coondog that deserve the titles they have achieved.every one of their owners will show them to you in the woods,yes,they are just dogs and every dog ive ever seen will have a bad nite.but please dont pass judgment on a dog youve never hunted with.come hunt with these dogs several nites and i think you will agree they are worthy of their titles.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 1256

this is a real interesting thread... i dont go to nite hunts anymore so anything i say about them is pretty outdated... i do remember owning a rope bag and a rolling cage. havent had to use one of them in years.. i think this is a result of nitehunts putting more tree power in our hounds than 20-30 years ago... dewayne said he agreed with a little of each post and thats right where i am... he also said lets put the track power back... and im with him on that.... ... redtick i saw a few of those me 2 dogs with a sharp handler do real good in hunts.. ive owned a very few real good coondogs. ive also been outclassed a few times in the hunts and make my hair stand up on back of my neck to think of some of the great dogs i saw on hunts... i was proud just to hunt and get beaten by a few dogs.. those dogs are out there. some may have never seen a nite hunt... i bet some are hunting and winning today.. so whos right and whos wrong on this thread... nobody.. or everybody.. . i will say the nite hunts are best hunting test that i know of and have done good for coondogs. check out beagle or foxhound trials and see what theyve done for thir breeds. or bird dog trials... . id like to see more nitehunts in the winter with no leaves. id like to see a three hour hunt like it used to be.. i think we could adjust the scoring just a little.. say 110 for first tree. reward that track dog just a little more.. maybe we could put a little more balance into hounds. we have tree dogs now,i think its ani mprovement but maybe now we need to work on the track power a little. i want my dog to run first track he comes to also... i dont want him racing cross country looking for a hot track... so anyways i agree a little with every post on this thread.. pete

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

The more I read of your post I have noticed you are a leveled headed man headed in the right direction with your line of blues. Its good to read of someone with a possitive attitude about what they believe in, and what they are doing.Its true I make remarks on here that don't suit a lot of people, and I do not intend to make any one angry, but like to stir the truth from time to time. I have read a lot of your posting, and none of them are written with any type of angry toward anything or anyone its always friendly, and from a real thought that you write. You are a credit to the bluetick breed, and the competition world of coon hunting.

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Pa.
Posts: 132

Gayleflowers;What was your dog doing in those 15 hunt's.????

Getting tore up,even on track once.Most "claimed" they couldn't hear my dog,some couldn't "see" coon or saw coon that weren't there.I know some got writers cramp from circling slick trees.You name it.I will say my dog was outgunned honestly one hunt.I was glad to see the best dog win for a change.Like I said most of it was a sad,sad joke.

To the guys that have Honest titled hounds(you know who you are)good job.If you didn't come by it honest it means NOTHING.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

For every GrNtCh that can't tree a coon on its own, I can come up with at least 20 nontitled dogs that can't either.

Its interesting how folks will take the exception and try to make it the rule, to minimize their own shortcomings.

If you don't like comp. hunts and comp. hounds, then the solution is quite simple. Don't go to them, don't breed to them or buy pups from them, and throw your reg. papers away. Cut all ties.

Above all, don't lay awake at night, wishing your hound had a title.

Last edited by John D on 08-23-2003 at 03:01 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

The only people that complain about titles are the ones that dont have them...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2967

Wrong, Josh. My stud dog is a Dual Grand Champion in 3 registries. But, I breed to him for the traits he has and the ones he puts in his pups. I have another stud here that has no titles. I like his pups also. I have owned Grand Nite Champions that were worthless to me, I have owned Grand Nite Champions that were the best coondogs I ever been to the woods with. The title of Grand Nite Champion doesn't mean much to me, the traits a dog has and his ability to put them in his pups do.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1610

you mean to tell me that your Dual Grand didn't start to walk on water after he got his "Titles" and that he is maybe as good of a coonhound now as he was before he got them? What kind of hound would he be if he didn't have them? And if he was producing "good" pups before that big day in his life, are they any different now?
I really need to know because, well, you know, I don't have jacks#it for "Titles".

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Redtick, I can understand why those titles don't mean much to you considering that you didn't lift a finger to put those titles on those dogs. Well ok, maybe you did lift a finger to write the check.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 662

What % are titled dogs made by cheating or a favor? I would have to say 90%, I know thats going to be a interesting figure but I believe it could be higher.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1076

>What % are titled dogs made by cheating or a favor?<
> I would have to say 90%, I know thats going to be<
>a interesting figure but I believe it could be higher.<
What are you saying?
Do you believe 90% of all titles were received through cheating or a "favor".
I've seen a few GR NT's that I didn't think were very good dogs, but not any that got their titles through cheating or favors.
Who do you know that cheated his dog all the way to GR NT?

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bruce ordway

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jtd's post is so much garbage that it doesn't even deserve a reply.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2967

JiM, you are absolutely correct, I didn't put titles on any of the titled dogs I own. It is cheaper to buy a Grand Nite Champion than to go out and try to make one, especially if you are as poor of handler as I am. And, this way I get to pick and choose which titled dogs I want and which ones to pass by. I don't buy dogs on their titles and all of the titled dogs I have are out of bloodlines I have had for over 25 years. Most of these dogs I have video tape of their sire and grandsire on both sides or in some cases, great, great grandsire treeing coon from strike to tree. You can see and hear the traits that pass down from generation to generation. As I said earlier, I am much more interested in the traits than the titles. There are a bunch of folks just breeding for titles and we can easily end up with a bunch of go yonder, hot nosed, pop up coondogs that you can't hunt in January.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 662

JIm ,you must have been in the closet all these years . If you dont think such incidents happen then I dont know what to tell you. Hell , when I was younger I made alot money judging Nt champ casts, by scoring on coons when there were obvisous blanks. I,an not proud of what I did back then but I did it. I cant change the past but I did change the future. Heck we,ve took grand nights and hunted then in registered cast just to finish a worthless hound.You can change if you want to.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

quote:

---

Originally posted by jtd
JIm ,you must have been in the closet all these years . If you dont think such incidents happen then I dont know what to tell you. Hell , when I was younger I made alot money judging Nt champ casts, by scoring on coons when there were obvisous blanks. I,an not proud of what I did back then but I did it. I cant change the past but I did change the future. Heck we,ve took grand nights and hunted then in registered cast just to finish a worthless hound.You can change if you want to.

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

If I were UKC I'd ban you because of your own admission of what your"past" consisted of. john carroll posted.


john if ukc baned people for what they did in the past before they saw the light, then they would have ban half the people on here for, say, like stealing that cookie from the cookie jar or the people who were crooks then became lawyers/doctors/senaters/presidents /cops.ect.
lol.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

also john back in the 70's i was told (very reliable hearsay) about one bunch of men that crossed a top blutick and walker and got a litter of top coondogs and the pups that looked like walkers ended up with walker papers on them and the badly ticked pups had blutick papers put on them. as told to me one with walker papers had quilyfied for the world hunt every year it was alive. but never made it to the world hunt because the workingman didn't have the money to go or his wheels would brake down when the world hunt came around and this dog made grand nite at an early age and was bred to a lot of dogs till he went to shooting blanks. i dont know what the papers on the dog was as i was told when the pups were born from they ended up with whatever they looked like.
this man is dead now so it cant be verfied but when you ask him what the bloodline of his dog was he would laugh and tell you he was birddog /lab/hound or something different every time he was asked.

another man that is dead now was said to tell people after he got out of ukc nite hunts that he had one dog that he used to title all his dogs pups /granpups ect.with as no one could tell the dogs apart as they looked alike and he used the one grand nite champion to title his whole kennel. i cant remember if this guy was bared or quit ukc hunts as i heard both storys about him.

this kind of goes along with another thread on here about not really knowing whats in your dogs background back 30 yrs ago and how they got where they did.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1076

>JIm ,you must have been in the closet all these years <
And jtd, you must have crawled out from under a rock.

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bruce ordway

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 284

Well jtd, this should get real interesting now. While I admire you're candor, it seems to me you've stuck it right in UKC's face with your admission (and on their own message board none the less). I can't imagine how they could NOT take some kind of action against you.

By the way, for the record, I've competed in and judged my share of hunts over the years and I've never done or seen what you've admitted to doing. If it had, they'd have been able to hear the fight clear back in Kalamazoo. Obviously, by your post, it happens but there's no way it happens on 90% of the casts. You may have justified doing it by telling yourself that everybody was doing it, but you were wrong.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Fl.
Posts: 1280

Wild Bill I sure wish you wouldn't come on here and tell all the secerets of what made the Walker hound the great hound it is. lol

I watched a show today on Vizalas or something like that. I sure couldn't get it out of my mind how good one would look crossed with a redbone. They said they were close hunting dogs, maybe they have been crossed already.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

didn't meen to let the the cat out of the bag ,but o well some of the oldtimers used to say the walkers had to have some ticks on them somewhere for them to make a real treedog.my sons dog hobo was a granson of giles joe(87 1st place world champion) and was a good coondog and also a good watchdog when tied up at the house...he would look good in the summer and when he sheded and put on his winter hair would look like an english with all the ticks he had on him,but would change back when putting his summer hair back on.never seen a dog do that before.some would show a few ticks but hobo would look like a different dog to those that didn't see him all the time.

my son 's red ch female would be haveing some ch walker pups but she don't stay swelled up long enough to know when to breed her. only seen one other dog like that a walker female my buddy had that when swelled up was ready to breed then cause when you waited till the 11th day she would be tighter than a mouse's ear..lol this red female must be the same way, dont show much blood.
how's you red walker pups coming along?

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TomMN started this thread, it's grown to 4 pages now, and no more comment from Tom! He's prolly setting back , looking at this stuff and thinking "oh man, look at what I started...."

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Fl.
Posts: 1280

Its all Tom's fault. lol If he would have just stuck to posting those great pictures of past great hounds we wouldn't be in this mess.

I am sure Tom like you said is sitting back watching, I would imagine snickering knowing if he threw some chum at a bunch of
piranahs he would get them into a feeding frenzy. lol

Quick someone throw in some more chum, its slowing down in here.

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Last edited by Bruce Conkey on 08-25-2003 at 01:36 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1076

>by your post, it happens but there's no way it happens on 90% of the casts.<
Sounds like it may have happened on 90% of the casts that jtd was on.

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