Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Calhoun KY
Posts: 995

The Thing I HATE about Hunting beagle is it aint usually the best hound that Wins just the lucky Dog..
you Know the one that Stays back for 3 min then goes in for 30 seconds just to come out again. or the one that SKIRTS the pack just to get to the front!! and Cross the line first..the same hound that only Ran about a 3rd of the track while the others did all the Work...

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Last edited by tjcrewse on 06-14-2009 at 10:43 AM

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Danville, IN
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This post was started about a rule question and discusion. Not about a big nose or a hot nose dog. Or why we like or dislike a perticular format.

There are going to be differences that's why there are to different formats. If we want to talk about that let's start a different thread. (Although I don't think its a good idea)

I just don't see how this rule is helping the beagle breed. There has be metion of seeing it both ways and that's not right.

The rule is the clock stops when striking in, But when those same dogs go in check and clock is running and dogs are barking now your wanting dogs to make movement this just dosent make sense. I have not looked it up my self yet (due to moving and don't know where my rules are)

I would like to hear from UKC on why this is.

Also I would like to hear from Big River Beagles and hear what the MOH did.

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Mount Jackson, VA
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quote:

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Originally posted by DAVE S
Be careful that you don't breed your dogs into the no nose dogs I see many times. The mouth at times seems tied to the nose. Yes the brain comes in also. But when conditions change and you have a very dry year or dry years watch out. SOME of those "only bark when its up" dogs can't smell anything. I have seen 6 dogs on the ground(while hunting) with one dog "boo hooing" around and no one else barking. Everyone looking on in disgust even the dog owner. That was until the big nose dog kicked out the bunny right in front of everyone. The other dogs could not smell it and we would have never even known it was there. We can get so worried about taking a minus that we keep on breeding the weaker nose to the weaker nose. Sooner or later you have dogs that can only run on the best of days. I have been to the Eliminator a couple times when conditions were bad and a big nose would have been nice to have in the pack. I hate a babbler also but be careful going to far the other way. Our Missouri conditions at times have been tough.

---

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Registered: Jul 2007
Location: williamsport,indiana
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LOTS OF GOOD COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS
we did not score it the right way i was the judge and i will admit that i was wrong however we did take a vote and the vote was 3-1 none of the other guys had seen it done any other way
we took it back to the master of hounds and he also agreed with the 3-1 vote
we did not extend the clock both dogs were held accountable for their positions and were minused accordingly
i would like to say also that the way it was scored didnot effect the outcome of the hunt if we would have scored it the right way the results would have been the same
i am glad that this didnot effect anyones hound
thanks for the info and i will know next time
good luck and good runnin to everyone

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Registered: Apr 2009
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All this talking about big noses has got me thinking your all a bunch of bozos. Every time someone trys to have a simple question answered it always turns into a different subject. If you want to talk about HOW BIG YOUR DOGS NOSE IS , or how your dog craps bigger turds than the other dog START A DIFFERENT THREAD.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Greensburg, IN
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Same cast, all dogs are struck in a handler see the rabbit and marks the line all dogs score except for one. Then the cast agrees to PR the track. Now this is another example of how the cast was scored wrong in my eyes. I spoke with a UKC Rep to make sure of this before posting. In the cast they would not give the dog that did not score the line his strike points even though a line was scored and then was agreed to PR (place of refuge) the track. Would like some feedback on this situation. I think the dog that missed the line gets his strike points along with the UKC rep I spoke with. I was told by this person the moment a line scored it is that same as majority of the cast seeing it due to the fact the majority and the judge scored the line. I was told that if you score a line and goes to a PR track then all strike points are plussed. Now if they lose the track then the strike points would not be plussed. Any information would be helpful. I believe I was correct in this situation as well but would like feedback. Thanks for the help.

Gary

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Last edited by WildMountains on 06-14-2009 at 09:14 PM

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
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There are only four ways to plus your strike points:

1. Your strike points will be plussed if your dog scores speed and drive.
2. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a hole or place of refuge.
3. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and time runs out in the hunt.
4. Your strike points will be plussed if your dog is struck in and the dogs on that track catch a rabbit

When you say PR i really don't know what you mean but i figure you are talking about handling dogs (must be decided before line is scored).

In this situation the dog that didn't score on the line doesn't meet any of the 4 requirements so it wouldn't plus its strikes.

Jack

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Registered: Nov 2004
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I think he means place of refuge and Jack's right the dog that missed the line would not keep his strikes. Allen and Todd singled out this scenario not to long ago on this board and said that scoring a line is not the same as majority seeing the rabbit.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Calhoun KY
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I Think PR means place of Refuge....
So in that case Wouldnt #2 apply??

2. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a hole or place of refuge.

For those that threw the Hissy l Deleted my Reply.....

quote:

---

All this talking about big noses has got me thinking your all a bunch of bozos. Every time someone trys to have a simple question answered it always turns into a different subject. If you want to talk about HOW BIG YOUR DOGS NOSE IS , or how your dog craps bigger turds than the other dog START A DIFFERENT THREAD.

---

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Registered: Nov 2004
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Scoring a line doesn't mean that majority seen the rabbit. One handler could've seen it and nobody else.

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Registered: Apr 2009
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oh and tjcrewse, s.m.d and l. m. b! See you at the westminster show little fella.
p.s brush my dog!

Last edited by legshaker on 06-14-2009 at 06:45 PM

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
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Actually...

If PR means place of refuge then you would plus the dog that didn't score on the line.

Because...

UKC has ruled that (after being circled) if a line is call (by a cast member) and its agreed to score the line and the line is scored by alteast one dog then you score it as if the majority has seen it. Keep in mind... Atleast one dog must actually score the line for it to be considered as the majority of the cast having seen the rabbit. (Even though only one person see the rabbit, the majority agrees its a rabbit when they agree to score the line and atleast one scores it.)

Gary, if you meant place of refuge i'm sorry for my earlier answer. If PR means place of refuge, based on everything else Yes you would plus the strikes of the dog that missed the line.

Jack

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Registered: Nov 2004
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I copied this from an earlier post made by Allen/ UKC.

Question: On a four-dog cast, all dogs are struck in. The rabbit is completely circled and seen by a cast member. The judge is present as Dogs A, B and C score on the line. Dog D misses the line. On the second circle, a line is marked and the cast agrees to pick the dogs up after they score it. Again, Dogs A, B and C score. Dog D misses it again. How do you score dog D’s strike points?

Answer: The answer to this question is to minus Dog D his strike points. Here is why.

As I have discussed in this column many times before, there are only four ways you can plus your strike points. They are to: 1) score speed and drive; 2) catch a rabbit; 3) if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a place of refuge; and 4) if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and the time runs out in the hunt. The fact that the other three dogs scored Speed and Drive is not enough to plus Dog D’s strike points. Only those dogs scoring Speed and Drive receive plus strike points. So now we have ruled out plus points.

It is pretty obvious that we cannot score Dog D’s strike points as circle points.

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Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeremy Mapes
I copied this from an earlier post made by Allen/ UKC.

Question: On a four-dog cast, all dogs are struck in. The rabbit is completely circled and seen by a cast member. The judge is present as Dogs A, B and C score on the line. Dog D misses the line. On the second circle, a line is marked and the cast agrees to pick the dogs up after they score it. Again, Dogs A, B and C score. Dog D misses it again. How do you score dog D’s strike points?

Answer: The answer to this question is to minus Dog D his strike points. Here is why.

3) if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a place of refuge;

---

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Last edited by xdawgbeagles on 06-15-2009 at 01:35 AM

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
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Scoring a line is not the same as the majority of the cast seeing a rabbit. One person out of four seeing a rabbit and calling a line is not the majority. It clearly states that majority must **SEE** the rabbit. I know that nobody scores it this way, but if were gonna go by the rulebook this is how it should be scored. Nowhere in the rulebook does it state that scoring a line is the same as majority seeing the rabbit

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Last edited by Jeremy Mapes on 06-15-2009 at 03:35 AM

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Registered: Apr 2004
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Todd talks about it here:
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...;highlight=line

In this post you even state the rule yourself:
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...;highlight=line

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Registered: Nov 2004
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Yes I remember that. Not long after that I was on a cast with Todd where he pointed out to me that rules don't explain it that way. He told me flat out that scoring a line isn't the same as majority. I'm not saying that I agree with the rule, just stating what the rules say. I personally think that if the line was called and the dogs scored on that line that they should all be plus. The dog missing the line has already lost points by not scoring, why punish him again. Maybe this is something that should be sent into the rules commitee for ukc to clarify better in the rulebook.

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Registered: Jan 2004
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Todd M / UKC
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Plus their strike points.

The reason for this is that the majority of the cast and the judge were present to score the line. This verifies the rabbit.

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here is the ruling was ruled on a long time ago.

Gary

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Registered: Jan 2004
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I have learned a lot off this thread and want to thank the people that helped out and brought the facts to the table. So we have learned that the clock restarts when another dogs strikes in on the same track. We have also learned that when the cast calls a track PR after scoring a line the strike points are plussed. Thanks again, to everyone.

Gary

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