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Justin Smith
Banned

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

You won't see dark , oily feed in anything except the top shelf feeds ..... your cheap stuff is usually light colored and never oily ... fill in the blanks but it is what it is.

Extreme Athlete is one of the best Diamond brands ... but for over $30 per bag ... it's not worth the money.

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03-20-2009 02:06 PM

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Plottluvr
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Two Rivers WI
Posts: 996

I feed the extreme athlete and both my dogs look great. The pup is lean, great muscle tone and both dogs coats are so shiny it looks like they were slicked with oil.

I pay $31.00 for a 40# bag at the feed store in the next town. They carry all the Diamond feeds so if I ever have to switch I know where to go.

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03-20-2009 02:21 PM

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Skyward
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 344

quote:
Originally posted by Justin Smith
You won't see dark , oily feed in anything except the top shelf feeds ..... your cheap stuff is usually light colored and never oily ... fill in the blanks but it is what it is.

Extreme Athlete is one of the best Diamond brands ... but for over $30 per bag ... it's not worth the money.

I'll fill them in. The more corn and grain, the lighter color of feed. Cheaper feeds have taken to adding artificial color and more beet pulp to counter this advancing knowledge on the part of the consumer. Lamb is the most easily digested but provides the poorest quality protein. Chicken would be next in terms of digestion and provides the best quality protein of the three. Beef also provides good quality protein but the hardest for them to digest. I am not big on vegetables/beef formulated feed. We learned in chemistry 101 in high school what is compatible and what isn't. The enzymes required to digest beef are the complete opposite of what it takes to digest vegetable matter. This starts in their mouth so from the beginning, their digestive system is out of whack. Tolerable of course and eventually adaptable but there are better options. I am leaning more towards this as the reason that some seem to have digestion problems when feed a beef diet. Straight beef has worked well for me incidentally when used sparingly. Chicken has its own negative aspects but the positives outweigh them in my opinion. Chicken fat is tough to beat as a fuel source too.

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03-20-2009 02:57 PM

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Plottluvr
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Two Rivers WI
Posts: 996

What are someones options if they've got a dog that is allergic to chicken?

Do they go with Beef or Lamb or something else like bison

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03-20-2009 06:42 PM

BlueJohn
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Damascus, OR
Posts: 89

quote:
Originally posted by Justin Smith
I tried the Extreme Athlete for a while ... it's like $32 a bag , you can't tell the difference in it and any of the others.

Beef is $23, Lamb is $25, and EA is $29 where I buy it.

quote:
Diamond and others use chicken alot because it makes the numbers look good ... but dogs just plain eat better and do better on the beef based foods even if the numbers aren't as good .

How do you have dogs getting protein and fat that isn't there? Somehow the lab analysis is wrong?

quote:
I've never seen a Diamond flavor that had the dark color and grease to the kernels like ProPlan , Canidae and such ....

So again, a greasy appearance or dark color means more than what's actually there?

quote:
I've never seen dogs get those ripped flanks with the muscles showing and get legged up on straight Diamond.

And I have.

quote:
Canidae is about the same price as the Extreme Athlete and I'd say it a good bit better.

Canidae is 21% protein/12.5% fat but Diamond Extreme Athlete is 32/25, and Diamond Naturals Lamb & Rice is 23/14 with the same main ingredients as Canidae. Both Canidae and DN L & R recommend the same amounts per pound of dog. DN EA recommends less per pound of dog. It looks to me like Diamond Naturals Lamb & Rice is a little better on contents than Canidae, and if Canidae and EA are the same price then the 40 pound Diamond Naturals Lamb & Rice is about $3 cheaper than the 35 pound Canidae bag.

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03-20-2009 08:30 PM

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Justin Smith
Banned

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

The labels don't tell quality ... that brown meat in the fridge that you throw out probably has the same protein as the fresh stuff you cook ... that's the jist anyway.

Moisture messes with the labels too ... canned dog feed has a sorry label but it's because you have to double the protein more or less to make it translate to dry because you know that stuff isn't only 10% protein.

There's all kinds of factors that are just as important as just the protein and fat ... beef vs. beef meal , how they cook it , corn ... what kind of corn ? Is the factory clean or are their mice running around pissing in the feed ?

McDonalds burgers and a Carl's Jr 6$ burger probably have neck and neck the same label ... but we they aint the same by far.

The top shelf feeds are better for more reasons than just the label .. that's why they are higher and that's why the very top and most respect breeders , hunters and what not feed them .

Chicken may be better ... but as a staple , taste and such factor in because I know dogs like those dang beef varieties better ... just like when most of us want a real meal ... it's a burger or steak and not a chicken sandwhich .

The math is a good start ... but you finish with what happens in reality .

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03-20-2009 08:46 PM

BlueJohn
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Damascus, OR
Posts: 89

Justin,

Sometimes seat-of-the-pants experience does trump the numbers. I have seen that a time or two in my life. But in this case the numbers are so far out of whack between the two feeds, and my own experience is telling me that my dogs are doing well and like the food, so I have to conclude that EA, and even the Diamond Naturals Lamb & Rice are the better buy for me. Your mileage may vary.

BTW, I quit feeding anything with corn in it a few years ago. Some vets are pretty convinced that some skin and ear problems are due to corn allergy.

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03-20-2009 09:09 PM

Justin Smith
Banned

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

You think ProPlan at $37 isn't better than EA at $32 ? .. or ProPlan isn't far better than any Diamond ?

Corn may be bad on paper .... but corn gluten meal is the key ingredient to putting the NOS under the hood of a hunting dog .... who cares about the staple or the protein ... it's pure horsepower and you can balance out the nutrition with something else .

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03-21-2009 12:01 AM

johnny altman
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 1769

i been useing it, and i really like it

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03-21-2009 12:04 AM

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deamon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Fulda,Mn.
Posts: 158

Thanks for the good info on this subject

I have fed the Green 27/18 Diamond and still do, through the scare and all of last year.I feed it year round and rarely feed the reccommended amount with good results (varies by individual dogs).I have tried the marroon and the yellow bags and didn't get the results.I have found what stays in them is more important.I hate scooping crap.I have never used the higher end Diamond feeds as I haven't felt the need.Recently to help cut cost of feed bill I have been using River Run 27/18,I don't mix just alternate as I run out.I get my feed from 2 suppliers which may go to one as today he can get me Diamond cheaper than where I buy it now 15 miles away.I have been feeding these 2 brands for a couple months now and since the weather has warmed I even have a signifigant decrease in consumption as well.The Diamond cost me $27 -50 lbs.,the River Run cost $21 -50lb.

Here are some other facts I got from my feed man:

Most dog food has a markup of 30-40%

Most dog food he handles cost about $2 per bag in transporting cost.

When you check out ingredients on a bag (top 5 are whats important) the top ingredient is the majority of the base product.

Glucosimine and Chondroitin can be added for $1 a bag on some brands.

Beet Pulp is a common higher cost in feeds that include it.(not corn)

So far everything he has told me ,I was unable to find to be untrue.For instance a month ago he told me about the Walmarts and such pressuring feed companies to lower cost of major brands or risk losing contracts.This came directly from one of his suppliers.
Thanks again good topic "deamon"

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03-21-2009 12:30 AM

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BlueJohn
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Damascus, OR
Posts: 89

quote:
Originally posted by Justin Smith
You think ProPlan at $37 isn't better than EA at $32 ? .. or ProPlan isn't far better than any Diamond ?

Corn may be bad on paper .... but corn gluten meal is the key ingredient to putting the NOS under the hood of a hunting dog .... who cares about the staple or the protein ... it's pure horsepower and you can balance out the nutrition with something else .

My dogs primarily run the high desert and canyons of eastern Oregon in the snow. It's rarely a 100 yard sprint on bare ground. They need more than carbs to do their job. They need fat and protein to go the long haul.

Purina Pro Plan is: 30/20 and 2000 calories per pound, 12% moisture.
Diamond EA is: 32/25 and 2138 calories per pound, 10% moisture.

I will not feed my dogs corn. You can do what you want.

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03-21-2009 12:56 AM

Skyward
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 344

quote:
Originally posted by Justin Smith
You think ProPlan at $37 isn't better than EA at $32 ? .. or ProPlan isn't far better than any Diamond ?

Corn may be bad on paper .... but corn gluten meal is the key ingredient to putting the NOS under the hood of a hunting dog .... who cares about the staple or the protein ... it's pure horsepower and you can balance out the nutrition with something else .

Justin, I am going to agree with you in terms of CGM being a quality ingredient. In studies as recent as 2003 CGM has shown to be a better source of protein than some of the animal based "by-products", especially poultry. However, CGM shines when blended with other forms of protein, primarily chicken. The synergistic effect of both is greater than either one singularly.The wet milling process used to obtain the CGM is what concerns me. Its primary function however is as a complimentary plant protein source and not a primary protein source. It falls short of being the NOS you refer to but as with any feed, its the result of all the ingredients that count. I won't fault a food for having CGM so long as it is paired with a solid animal protein source free of by-products. Too much weight loss has been documented when CGM is used as the primary protein source.

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03-21-2009 01:08 AM

PRITCHARD
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Concord ,NC
Posts: 796

Diamond..

I started this post.I live in Concord ,NC. I went to the Hunter & Hound yesterday.They have got the Diamond Naturals as cheep as I have ever seen it.

chic &rice $20.50e
extreme athelete $24.00
lamb rice $24.00

If you live in NC go to the Hunter Hound in Morganton NC they have the best peice on it...

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03-22-2009 05:53 PM

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johnny altman
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 1769

wow, iam a dealer and i cant buy it for that

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03-22-2009 06:55 PM

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here in stillwater the lamb and rice, beef and rice, chicken and rice and the diamond performance are all $22.95 per 40# bag...they dont have the E.A. there...

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03-22-2009 08:35 PM

ridgerunner88
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Obetz, Ohio
Posts: 34

Wow, that's a great price for Naturals EA. I found DOGFOODANALYSIS.COM to be helpful. It shows the label for about any feed you can think of and reviews them. I only have two hounds so I can afford to feed a much better feed than a kennel keeper can. I think the diamond naturals is a very good feed for the price. Some big names like Iams, Eukanuba, or Proplan are not very good, just a big marketing budget. I switch it up for some variety. I've fed SOLID GOLD BARKING AT THE MOON and TASTE OF THE WILD HIGH PRAIRE most recently. They are VERY pricey but I have to feed very little. I was feeding a cheaper feed (Diamond Hi-Perf.) and it made my dogs shed heavily and they ate a lot more of it. The higher quality feed has stopped the shedding, all the omega 3 and 6.

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03-22-2009 11:01 PM

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Geminite
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3063

Re: diamond

quote:
Originally posted by Blue Style
I am getting the diamond performance, 30/20, 40# bag for 22.95, and the naturals, the chicken and rice, lamb and beef are also 22.95 a 40# bag....

I can also get it for that price. It's a great deal and we really, really like the feed. Have been feeding it for over three years.

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