Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Covington Ga.
Posts: 116

I have shown quite a few dogs in my 30yrs. of hunting, first of all you have to realize UKC lets themselves of the hook by saying its the judges opinion you are paying for when you enter a show! I went through this back in the early 90's!! Nobody knew who Barry Franklin was when I entered a show! But when they seen the people named Seets or Hill whitch was at every show, they got an extra look or two. I soon learned how things went and forgot about it!! Mabe you should too!! Just my opinion. I showed as good a looking dog as i had ever seen, that was my opinion. so don't worry, as long as you like your dog don't worry, enjoy your dogs!!

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: SC
Posts: 1012

quote:

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Originally posted by Barry Franklin
I have shown quite a few dogs in my 30yrs. of hunting, first of all you have to realize UKC lets themselves of the hook by saying its the judges opinion you are paying for when you enter a show! I went through this back in the early 90's!! Nobody knew who Barry Franklin was when I entered a show! But when they seen the people named Seets or Hill whitch was at every show, they got an extra look or two. I soon learned how things went and forgot about it!! Mabe you should too!! Just my opinion. I showed as good a looking dog as i had ever seen, that was my opinion. so don't worry, as long as you like your dog don't worry, enjoy your dogs!!

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 1600

I think thats the worst part, gettin discouraged. I want to see more young people get involved and not have them give up because 1 person don't like the breed they have choosen. My step son just started showing and I hope nobody discourages him in any way.

And as far as that Plott is concerned ya'll know I'd sure as HECK feed her any day!!!!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: Waynesburg, KY
Posts: 295

A lot of times the big handlers do have better dogs than you & I do & sometimes they don't. I like you sometimes see the politics thing win in shows. I had a good freind get his dogs tail broken at Autumn Oaks while standing in its pen while he was getting something to drink. This is pitiful. This dog had allready won a world show & was topnotch as show dogs go. It's just a shame he couldn't prove the rumors he was told about who done it & he would have hurt them bad if he knew this for a fact. I in no way pick old big time over the (like myself) average Joe unless they have the better dog & if yours conforms better than old big timers does I'll go with you, but you talking about making someome mad when you pick old average Joe over them you just wouldn't believe what they'll say, but i'm the kind of guy that doesn't care what they think & don't try to impress either. The language old big time will use sometimes amazes me but they always do it after the showlol. I for one don't care to get right back with them either & absolutley don't care what old big time thinks or says. If you beat them than you beat them period lol.I personally wish UKC would go with a panel of 3 by secret ballot without the 3 speaking to each other & ring master calling the winners out.

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Last edited by Les Young on 03-05-2009 at 02:47 PM

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3063

It comes down to the fact that UKC will never do anything more to make their judges more qualified to judge in the first place. I went through a case of "tough luck" with UKC a few years ago with my nice little plott female. All in all, a vet (picked out by UKC) verified that my dog was perfectly fine conformationally & by the breed standards to compete in a bench show. BUT, UKC still ruled with the judge and I no longer am able to show the dog....After all this, I asked UKC WHY they don't have more qualified judges and do you know what they told me?

"Frankly, we couldn't get enough people to do it if they had to go through a more thorough process to get a license."

I think that Plott looks just fine to me but so it goes.....

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Registered: May 2006
Location: northeast ohio
Posts: 1307

maybe the judge needs glasses lol. them judges play favorites when it comes to dogs. alot of times around here if the judge dont like you then they wont pick your dog. SORRY JUDGES BUT ITS TRUE.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Two Rivers WI
Posts: 996

We should have a critique on here for those considering showing their hounds. Kind of like a virtual bench show.

My 3 yr old isn't reg so she can't be shown but I'd love to see what others think of her and of my pup (who is developing some brindle markings). Maybe someone can do a split screen side by side comparison sort of thing. Just an idea.

I've done conformation showing in the AKC and its no different there then in the UKC it sounds like.

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Disputanta, Virginia
Posts: 1524

I have looked at the test for Bench Show Judges that has to be taken before you can apprentice and there is no way in he11 that most of these judges that are out there now could ever pass that test.

I agree with Les Young on something.... when the scoring comes down to a tie then something has to be a tie breaker, whether it be personal opinion, whos dog was presented better or anything else the judge decided was a tie breaker.

I do think that all the big shows, ie; state, national, world and purina shows should be required to list who the judges are going to be. I have had a judge tell me one year that they didnt like my male at all and then the next year the same judge says that he is one of the nicest looking red dogs he has ever judged.

I can honestly say that the dog, who is plenty mature and has been, got no better in the last year. In fact he probably has gotten worse but it is obvious that the judge really had no clue what he was looking at.

Oh well... LOL

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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: Waynesburg, KY
Posts: 295

That's a very bad deal & pitiful I might add that UKC would do this after reccomending a vet that they clearly respects opinion & the vet they reccomended saying your dog was clearly structurally sound & evidently it was or it wouldn't of passed the evaluation reccomended by them.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Comer, Georgia
Posts: 4724

quote:

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Originally posted by skyblu
ALSO illustrates why Clubs should let exhibitors know who is judging when aked for this information. Why spend money to be insulted? I WILL drive 100+ additional miles to another area where I don't know the judges or sometimes even the club members (and I don't ask who is judging) instead of taking a chance on the usual "stuff happening."
One of the existing confusions seems to be that another KC DOES allow solid colors in Plotts and UKC requires brindling. I was recently at a local (other registry) bench show and overheard people suggesting that Marcum's Plott should be disqualified because of her color. I didn't say anything but probably should have told them to read the breed standard. However, that particular club (and it's not the only one) has members who don't appreciate my remarks so I sat with my B&T and Plott and kept quiet. As a BSJ I KNOW that Marcum's Plott meets the breed standard very well - I've seen her many times & she's also won (deserved wins) over MY entries.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Rosman, North Carolina
Posts: 883

If I had to judge a bench show and it came down to a virtual tie, the first thing I'd do is look at their ears and the tops of their muzzles...

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: SC
Posts: 699

quote:

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Originally posted by P.W. Chapman
If I had to judge a bench show and it came down to a virtual tie, the first thing I'd do is look at their ears and the tops of their muzzles...

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Rosman, North Carolina
Posts: 883

quote:

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Originally posted by MRC
And pick the one with the most scars since it has been hunted......

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 1600

quote:

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Originally posted by MRC
And pick the one with the most scars since it has been hunted......

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Hey that black & white dog has been hunted pretty hard in her life and has NO scars. We HAVE to make sure all coons are dead when they hit the ground, she's had 2 rounds with CDP and she's my in the woods trainer

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dixie
Posts: 1490

I believe it was Mr. Von himself that said if you cull and don't maintain the buckskins the plott will breed to a solid black hound overtime.

The plott of today that is coon hunted and the one's from carolina I hunted with in the 70's are two different animals.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Rosman, North Carolina
Posts: 883

rowdyhound,

Your woods must be cleaner than ours...just running a hound through the brush here will scar up their muzzle and ears somewhat.

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 1600

quote:

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Originally posted by P.W. Chapman
rowdyhound,

Your woods must be cleaner than ours...just running a hound through the brush here will scar up their muzzle and ears somewhat.

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Treeing Walker Coonhounds and German Shepherd Dogs

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Disputanta, Virginia
Posts: 1524

They probably dont have many trees or brush in Texas anyway do they. LOL

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

My old Plott has a piece out of his ear, caused by a boar coon that came down out of a tree. But on another note, one of my friends has an 8 or 9 year-old male B&T without a mark on him because my friend makes sure the coon is dead when it hits the ground from a tree. And his dog is a true coon dog - doesn't run trash, slick tree or get in fights with other dogs. He hunts this B&T in a fairly rough area too. Besides - bench shows are NOT meant to try to choose dogs that hunt - BSJs are supposed to be choosing dogs with the best conformation that would ENABLE a hound to hunt! So I have a BIG problem with BSJs who choose dogs they THINK or KNOW are hunted - that's part of the scenario where BSJs choose winners based on ownership or handlers instead of judging against breed standards.

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 1600

quote:

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Originally posted by RedBones4me
They probably dont have many trees or brush in Texas anyway do they. LOL

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LOL we've got a couple of trees and some brush, I just stay away from it, hard to get thru it when your short AND fat!!!!

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3 Color Kennel
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

Your'e correct - this thread clearly demontrates why clubs should tell prospective exhibitors who is judging a bench show when asked. TSCHA makes a big deal about keeping that info secret & because of that, exhibitors get the impression that "the bottom of the barrel" is being scraped or "the least expensive volunteer" is chosen, resulting in a BSJ "image" problem. They DID manage to have a good BSJ a year or so ago - she would have drawn many additional exhibitors if people had known she was going to judge. JMO

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

why? im a small fish and wouldnt know them anyway
do you guys just show under your buddies?
sorry Les i disagre with the 3 judges when most
shows only have 3-4 dogs, that would cut your enters in 1/2.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

We don't show just under our "buddies." First of all, there are rules about how many judges are required to look at the dogs for them to earn titles. Second - Some judges prefer certain types of dogs or they have specifically indicated their preferences. So. knowing that a particular BSJ likes this or that about certain breeds helps us determine which dogs to show. For example, if a certain BSJ has stated he prefers DARK Blueticks, I'd bring my DARK Blueticks & leave the lighter ticked ones at home. If I know a particular BSJ doesn't care for one of my dogs because he's made strongly negative critiques after judging, I'll bring OTHER dogs. I believe NONE of us appreciates a BSJ who gives wins to buddies & it's a turnoff for drawing entries. It's to a club's advantage to try to have honest & capable judges. When I'm going out of my area - 150 miles or more, I don't call to ask who is judging because I probably wouldn't know the BSJ anyway - I just keep my fingers crossed that the BSJ will be a good one. And I must say, I've been to some SUPER nice events in other states and seen some excellent judging.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

i guess how many best of shows do you have to have?
and 100 pts right

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Texan by Birth---Virginian by Choice
Posts: 1375

Im a BSJ and i give each dog and equal going over. and i try to do it ina timely manner. and just because one dog moved a foot or looked at something i dont hold that against them...one of the biggest thing i look at is gate legs muscle tone...... and how its all put toghter to help the hound move freely and efficiently thru the woods.....i dont believe in just lettin them stand there waitng for one to flinch... ive even set some al ittle differnt than the way the handler has them to have a better look, if they want to move it back. do so.....

Now to the Plott pictured... the first time i saw this dog i thought it was to dark .....was kind of an over cast day....the hound gated well. and is a prety tight built female. muscle definition. but was just almost black to me........ the next time i saw her the sun was shining and the brindle does show thru, Ive Judged this hound and picked her to win her class and overall as well.... Ive shown my hound against her . my Female Walker wins some and the Plott wins some.it dont bother me one IOTTA to be beat by her.... there is more judges than me that has chosen her to have the titles on the bench she has,,,,,

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