Registered: Mar 2007
Location: indiana
Posts: 580

then why did ukc and every book i ever read on hounds tell us that all hounds but the plott came from english fox hounds?????????? i only know what i have been told for 40 yr's not beeing a ass but show me where it is . now black @tans might be the first reg ukc hound but akc was there first but any way all hounds started from english fox hounds and broke off from there to the type of dog's we see today.

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: rochester in.
Posts: 51

im pretty sure it was a walker from indiana or ohio or there close

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 38

Well here goes:

Dual Grand Beech River Sputnik
Dual Grand Penny's Kentucky Kojak
Dual Grand Beshears' Blue Boy II (Junior)
Dual Grand Pinehill True Boy
Dual Grand Indian Creek Wendy
Dual Grand Gray & Taylor's Sandy
Dual Grand Hickory Hollow Hambone II
Dual Grand Dickey's Old Sandy
Dual Grand Wilcox Thunder JR
Dual Grand Thrasher's Little Penny
Dual Grand Tenbrooks Sandy III

In no particular order but I would say Sputnik was the first English Dual Grand Champion !?!

Mark Penny
Moberly MO

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Location:
Posts: 1310

quote:

---

Originally posted by P.W. Chapman
Sorry, but no. The Black and Tan was the first recognized and registered with UKC. All the way back in 1900, I believe. The English was 3rd & redbone 2nd.

The English was the parent breed of the blueticks and treeing walkers for if those dogs were registered in UKC they had to be registered as English until the 40's or 50's when they broke away from the English.

Here are the years in which these breeds were recognized by UKC...

Black & Tan 1900
Redbone 1902
English 1905
Treeing Walkers 1945
Blueticks 1946
Plotts 1946
Leopards 2008

Of course that doesn't answer the original question. I'd love to see what Todd finds out....

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I refuse to believe that my bluedogs are in any way, shape, or form descended from the same dogs as walker dogs.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: gillsville ga
Posts: 259

quote:

---

Originally posted by smokey7
I refuse to believe that my bluedogs are in any way, shape, or form descended from the same dogs as walker dogs.

---

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Rocky Mount Mo. 65072 (Lake Ozark area)
Posts: 1095

McDonalds Cole Younger was one of the first Grand Nite Champs..

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#573-392-7119 cell 573-286-0431
Home of bunch of lowbred culls;
Saline Creek Smokin Sheba (DualGrCh Osage Stinger Joe x DualGrCh Schenker's Smokin Cindy)
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Saline Creek Beau (Millers Midnight Harry, (Eads bred) x Beauty, Myers/ Sting bred) co owner Will Simpson
GrNiteCh Chenoweths Cheyenne
NiteCh Party Queen (GrNiteCh Duelin Dan x GrNiteCh Ruby 2)
Mandy (littermate to Thunderstick & Lil Ann)
Saline Creek Jenna Jameson (GrNiteCh Kansas Hayes x GrNiteCh Dixie Gem) co owners Scott Rodden, Kyle Sears

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Raywick Ky
Posts: 1460

Houses Dancer in the mid 1960,s

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CH GRNITECH STAR HILL RAGIN BLACK JUDGE
(GRNTCH THUNDER VALLEY RAGIN OX x GRNTCH KY RIVER CHIGGER)
STAR HILL RAGIN BLK JUDGE II
(CH GRNTCH STAR HILL RAGIN BLACK JUDGE x Ch NTCH Lil PUke)

Frank & Lisa Yates
RAYWICK KY
270-692-6713

Last edited by kycooner1 on 01-15-2009 at 11:47 AM

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: In my heart Eureka Springs
Posts: 1161

quote:

---

Originally posted by kycooner1
Houses Dancer in the mid 1960,s

---

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Last edited by HistoryNutt on 01-16-2009 at 06:11 PM

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: indiana
Posts: 580

why is this one so hard to find the answer too?? did ukc not keep tabs on this kind of thing back then or what

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Al
Posts: 3069

Tennasee Lead, was not a champion in any breed class but was a Black & Tan and was the Catalyst for most of what you see in the Hound world today

So the first Coon Dogs where Bl&T i might not like that but thats what it is, but then those dogs where far diffrent than what we have today i mean in a good way too

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Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: indiana
Posts: 580

he might have been a great coon dog . but where is it said other than hear or writen that the black and tan was the first coon dog ?????????? they where not ........... yes they may be the first reg ukc coon dog breed but they came from englich fox hounds. like it or not that is the truth..........the only hound not to come from english fox hound and they may have some in them was the plott.... they got there start like a lot of the curs did by the plott family....... you have a world wide web just type in coon hound and see what it tells you. i bet it was the same thing i was told long before the computer was around . english fox hound

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ray&Luie
Tennasee Lead, was not a champion in any breed class but was a Black & Tan and was the Catalyst for most of what you see in the Hound world today

So the first Coon Dogs where Bl&T i might not like that but thats what it is, but then those dogs where far diffrent than what we have today i mean in a good way too

---

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13416

Wasn't one of James Hawker's dogs from Va was it?

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Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Big Hoss




Dennis Robinson
Cell 540-295-3892

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Rocky Mount Mo. 65072 (Lake Ozark area)
Posts: 1095

I think I heard something somewhere about a pic was worth more than 1,000 words???

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Saline Creek Kennels
Black&Tans since 1977
#573-392-7119 cell 573-286-0431
Home of bunch of lowbred culls;
Saline Creek Smokin Sheba (DualGrCh Osage Stinger Joe x DualGrCh Schenker's Smokin Cindy)
Saline Creek Reba II (GrCh North Rivers Hard Cola (albert, medicine man bred) x Saline Creek Reba (Sheba's sister)
Saline Creek Beau (Millers Midnight Harry, (Eads bred) x Beauty, Myers/ Sting bred) co owner Will Simpson
GrNiteCh Chenoweths Cheyenne
NiteCh Party Queen (GrNiteCh Duelin Dan x GrNiteCh Ruby 2)
Mandy (littermate to Thunderstick & Lil Ann)
Saline Creek Jenna Jameson (GrNiteCh Kansas Hayes x GrNiteCh Dixie Gem) co owners Scott Rodden, Kyle Sears

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

Anybody could make a sign and put it up , but that don't make it gospel. ( you know how coonhunters are ! LOL )

Do you honestly believe that all our coondogs came from that one dog? NOT !
He had to have been bred to a female and it might have all come from HER side of the family.

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: rockcastle county, kentucky
Posts: 8

deep river mike was the first ever grand nite in 1960 but i dont know about dual grand

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1310

so there we have it. All walkers came from a black and tan. However, I don't believe that sign is complete. Here, I'll finish it.............




And then, that stud dog was bred to every slick treeing female we could find. Then, through carefull selection, we culled out the dogs that actually could locate the coon and kept the ones that allways treed first and never had anything at all. 150 years of this has brought us to the beautifull and magnificent walker hounds you people hunt and enjoy today.

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Home of.........

Baldwin's Blue Princess

and

Baldwin's Blue Texas


In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1310

quote:

---

Originally posted by Loren Simpson




I think I heard something somewhere about a pic was worth more than 1,000 words???

---

Jim and Elvis sure haven't changed much the last 150 years have they?

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Home of.........

Baldwin's Blue Princess

and

Baldwin's Blue Texas


In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: In my heart Eureka Springs
Posts: 1161

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roger Hall
I might be wrong but I think it was House's Bawlie, Joe House owned him at the time. He was also 1963 ACHA World Champion and if I not mistaken he was also World Show Champion that Year. First and only dog to do that. If my memory is right, that's been a lot of years ago.

Someone tell if I wrong because I might be.

---

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 238

bawling barney ??

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: In my heart Eureka Springs
Posts: 1161

quote:

---

Originally posted by todd kellam
That is a good question. I can't find the answer right off but I'm guessing HistoryNutt is very close on the time frame being the mid 60's. The GrNiteCh degree did not even come out until 1964. The first CH titled dog was in '47 (english dog) but can't find when the GRCH title was first available? For a long time CH NITECH was as high as you could go.

I'm going to make an educated guess then I'm going to try to run it through the system and see what I can find out. I'm going to guess Dale Brandenburger's Pioneer Drum.

---

Okay, can someone ask a hard question?

The Grand Nite Champion Degree was offered starting in 1964. I assume the Grand Champion Degree was offered the same year. But I don't know yet, for sure. If that was the case then the First Dual Grand Champion should have been made by late 1964 or early 1965.

In the Autumn Oak of 1964 UKC had the first National Grand Nite Champion. That title was won by Miller's Little Joker.

For your walker Lovers and Haters: At the time of 1964 Autumn Oaks there were only 12 Grand Nite Champions. 7 of the 12 made it to Autumn Oak that year.

Of the 12 Grand Nite Champions 7 were Treeing Walkers. As a column writer wrote back then, the Walkers had MORE Grand Nite Champions then the other 5 breeds combined.

At this time of the 12 Grand Nite Champions all breeds were represented but one. No I don't know which one yet but I don't want to guess because I don't want to make the ***** people mad. .

The FIRST UKC Grand Nite Champion was DEEP RIVER MIKE who won the ACHA World Championship in 1960.

I know this doesn't answer the question of who the first Dual Grand Champion was but it is narrowing down the time frame that it happened.

I don't think Pioneer Drum was ever finished out beyond Dual Champion BUT he did win the first Autumn Oaks. There was 24 Nite Champions entered I think in 1960.

__________________
The History Should Be Known
Don

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Sites I like to visit that have a lot of information:

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

i dont thank deep river mike was ever showed.
any way my old computer guessed the right yr.

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 10675

This is a tough question,,but i do know that a fellow back home WVa by the name of Les Flinn had a dual grand Walker that i chased many miles in those hills,,that was like 1964,,maybe 1965 Dogs regestered name was Flinn's Thunderbird ,but Les called him Ring. I'm not saying he was the first but dang close .

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