Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Josh and Dwils,

I have been following these hounds for 35 years. In addition, I am a trained animal behavorist who has been published in international journals.

I can not speak for anyone else, but myself I know what a track dog is.

I am so glad that you guys know me so well to question my knowledge, experience, and integrity.

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I had no idea stating my opinion would put into question your knowledge, experiece or integrity.

Apparently my idea of a trackdog is wrong, because it differs from yours....

Everyone, please disregaurd my comments as I have never been published in an international journal.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Coatesville Indiana
Posts: 545

You are right Ray&Luie. The female I am wanting to breed to Cornell or another top track and tree dog, Is a flat out coondog. I would cast her agianst any stud dog on the market. She will get her end done all by her self. She will not be the weak link in any breeding.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Josh,

You quoted me saying I know what a track dogs is and then you contradicted what I said. That is more than just stating our opinion.

The part about my educational experience was unnecessary, but it does illustrate I am not an uneducated backwoods coon hunter as some may believe.

Yes, I took offense to your statement because it was directed at me. If it was a general statement you should have left off the quote. I don't have problems with differing views that happens more times than not. I do have problems with the manner you presented yours.

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Aim small miss small

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Coatesville Indiana
Posts: 545

Good Lord!!!!!!!

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 2106

......and we're worried about our dogs fighting at the tree.....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

Fair enough Larry.

Im sorry if my post was offensive to you, It certainly wasnt intended to be...

Although, I will be the first to admit I have made intentional offensive posts in the past.

Unfortunately our own experiences cause all of us to see things differently at times...defining a track dog is like trying to define a good looking woman...Different strokes for different folksIMO

Then again, I am just an uneducated backwoods coonhunter, so what do I know.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 441

Lowell Iwould have to say Cornell has been accused of flying thru the country and finding a hot one.And I would say it seems sometimes he does.But on alot of occasions Cornell has drifted a track and had the coon.Since Cornell has gotten older he opens alot more on track something I just as soon wish he would quit.I liked it better when he barked about once and the next time you heard him he was locating.I hate hitch-hikers,I like hunting UKC but I hate it that they don't have some kind of countdown on there tree's.WHOLE NOTHER SUBJECT SORRY!!Cornell will hunt in any kind of conditions from hot weather to cold to a downright storm.One thing about Cornell he is ready to go first dump to the late round your pulling the same dog out of the box give him a second to stretch and he's gone by himself with a cast or hang on to the other dogs he's gone!!The greatest compliments come from other hunters and I was in a cast with David Dial and I told him you got me beat David.His answer was I've been with Cornell several times and it isn't over till that last second clicks with him!!David won that cast but I sure appreciated his respect for Cornell!

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Johnson City, TN
Posts: 372

Lowell, sounds like you have a great female which to me is more than half the battle. I , like you, feel our dogs need alot more track and less tree. Im afraid though it seems that you are falling into the same ole trap that got us into this mess to begin with. Dont breed your really good female to a dog just because people want some pups out of a certain dog. Dont breed to a dog just because he is a won a bunch of hunts. Breed to a dog that is a PROVEN reproducer. Big difference, HUGE DIFFERENCE, in a dog that wins hunts and one that produces coondogs. Hunt with the dog, hunt with his offspring, find out about his littermates. Nothing against Cornell, Ive hunted with him, and he maybe a good reproducer, but people just dont research enough in my opinion. If you do all these things mentioned and you find one that your confident in give me a call and I'll buy one from you. Good luck in your search.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Coatesville Indiana
Posts: 545

Thanks Roger, This is what I am doing, Researching!!!!!

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Mistakes I've made have cost me plenty, and folks who judge I've met aplenty. The perfect man, I ain't met any and He who says he is ain't worth a penny.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 441

Lowell you can call 319-795-6703 and talk to Terry Cochran about Cornell pups.I believe he has been training about four of them.He has trained alot of pups and one of the best at it!!I trust in his ability to judge pups and I agree with Roger on researching the stud your going to breed too.And i will take you hunting with Cornell anytime!!I bred about four females of my own to Cornell starting about 14 months ago to make sure he reproduced ability before advertising him for stud!!!I'm one of the hardest judge's on dog's faults and abilities.I have several other references on some of his pups but I'm going to check to see if they care I post there name and #!!As far as Cornell alot of people have hunted with him and can tell you more about his style.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Coatesville Indiana
Posts: 545

John, Thanks for the input. I sure would like to see him go. He has nothing to prove to me but I like to see his kind get it done.

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Mistakes I've made have cost me plenty, and folks who judge I've met aplenty. The perfect man, I ain't met any and He who says he is ain't worth a penny.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 441

Thanks Lowell for believing in Cornell's abilities but the main thing is keeping an eye on how his pups are doing for people and I love getting them calls from people liking them.Its as fun as winning a hunt to get them calls.There starting to get spread out from northern Iowa to Texas so before long will know how there doing in different coon populations.There are some good Studs out there but as it has already been said the ability of the female is just as important!!

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Roosevelt, Utah
Posts: 586

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Josh,

You quoted me saying I know what a track dogs is and then you contradicted what I said. That is more than just stating our opinion.

The part about my educational experience was unnecessary, but it does illustrate I am not an uneducated backwoods coon hunter as some may believe.

Yes, I took offense to your statement because it was directed at me. If it was a general statement you should have left off the quote. I don't have problems with differing views that happens more times than not. I do have problems with the manner you presented yours.

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Well said Larry, and if more people would just give their input or state their opinion rather than arguing against what someone else has posted fewer people would be offended on these boards.

I'm a big game hunter and so my idea of what a track dog is probably differs greatly from what a coonhunter wants or sees in a hound.

Too often I've started old melted out day old lion tracks for a client knowing my hounds would most likely never jump that lion. Sure, a guy always hopes that cat was hunting and makes a kill and lays up, but in most cases that old tom lion people are after is traveling marking territory and has no intention of laying up. To catch those mature, dominate class toms a guy has to be on the right end of the track as we big game hunters say.

If a guy has hunted these brutes very long he soon learns that the ones that are jumped in a few miles are the lucky ones, while the other tracks go for miles and often leave the dogs fifteen, twenty or more miles from their start with nothing but sore feet and a raw nose to show for their efforts.

A track dog to me is a dog that will start a track like that and hammer down it all day and night and still be moving the track the following morning. And those dogs are made through experience and no stud dog can take the credit.



don't know whether the photo shows it, but LionHeart was pretty good at rubbing the hide off her nose while trailing lion through the ice and rocks all day and often times into the night.

Just my opinion and I'm sure everyone else has a different one.

Ike

Last edited by RunninBear(Ike) on 12-12-2008 at 04:33 AM

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

He is a Grandson of Lipper who pretty much put the track back into the walkers for a while. Older Finley River lines were very good from what I have seen over the years.

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 3550

quote:

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Originally posted by Roger Wilson
Lowell, sounds like you have a great female which to me is more than half the battle. I , like you, feel our dogs need alot more track and less tree. Im afraid though it seems that you are falling into the same ole trap that got us into this mess to begin with. Dont breed your really good female to a dog just because people want some pups out of a certain dog. Dont breed to a dog just because he is a won a bunch of hunts. Breed to a dog that is a PROVEN reproducer. Big difference, HUGE DIFFERENCE, in a dog that wins hunts and one that produces coondogs. Hunt with the dog, hunt with his offspring, find out about his littermates. Nothing against Cornell, Ive hunted with him, and he maybe a good reproducer, but people just dont research enough in my opinion. If you do all these things mentioned and you find one that your confident in give me a call and I'll buy one from you. Good luck in your search.

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