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Not impressed with the HD / MOH change. I like the panel option but I'm very disappointed that the HD still needs to sit at the clubhouse. I'm biting my tongue to keep from saying more...

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Registered: May 2007
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 311

I think UKC did a good thing with allowing the OPTION of using a hunt director or a MOH. I can think of a few circumstances that I'm not sure how a hunt director should handle it. For instance how would a hunt director form a panel if a question comes in during the hunt? I really like the idea of a hunt director but I think some clarification on proper procedure will be needed. Once the kinks are ironed out I see no reason this wouldn't be a very good thing for the smaller local hunts and the clubs that host them.

All in all I like the rule changes as well.

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Cornbelt, the panel is assembled by the Hunt Director. The HD chooses 3 individuals who he/she believes is knowlwgeable about the rules and impartial to settle the question. They would not choose anyone connected to the dog, owner or handler of the person bringing the question or on that cast. If a club would be concerned about the possibiltyof finding three qualified individuals, then they might want to consider staying with the MOH. Atleast that is how I understand it.

My own personel experience with panels is that, especially at small clubs where everyone is friends, it can be very hard to put together a panel that will seem impartial to an outsider bringing a question.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: New Franklin, MO
Posts: 1182

This is a Good deal ,Way to go UKC!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
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I don't know...I guess I look at it different Brogy. I hate the idea of nobody being responsible for things that come up at the club house while casts are out. Whether it's a cast returning for another guide or simply a matter of keeping scorecards confidential as they are returned. If the HD is hunting, nobody is responsible.

I think while many clubs might lack a licensed MOH, most clubs know a trustworthy responsible person that can serve as HD. And right up front you can use someone who is absolutely not a nite hunt rules expert. No problem. If they are honest and responsible, they'll make a perfect HD. I think allowing someone that's not licensed is a convenience to the small clubs and I think requiring the person to be at the club is more fair for those that are hunting. To me it seems like a very good format.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

What will the requirements be to be a HD? I think the question was if a cast return and every one is still out hunting how do you make a panel?

I give UKC a B+ for trying and this may be easier on some clubs, but I think it is going to cause some issues.

The best way to make sure everyone knows the rules is education. We need a new reference source (Advisor) for MOH and it needs to be made clear to MOH's that is is the official interpretation of the rules. We also need individuals to report MOH who refuses to follow those interpretations.

Education doesn't need to fall completely in UKC's lap either. Clubs could take an active part too.



PS Todd, the changes on the web page are hidden ... it took me a while to find them. I have to admit I go no where else on the web site unless I am looking for something specific.

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Larry Atherton

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

Hidden ??? It's the very top item on the Coonhound Page? In big bold print. Rule and Policy Changes. lol

I know what you are saying Larry. I could have just posted them in the forum but I'm trying to train you all to look for official type announcements on the coonhound page.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
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Todd ya can ask the misses ... I am untrainable!!!!!!!!

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Larry Atherton

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quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
What will the requirements be to be a HD?

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Registered: Jun 2003
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It's not a licensed position. The club may appoint anyone to serve in that capacity that they feel is honest and knowledgeable in conducting an event.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Texan by Birth---Virginian by Choice
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the only problem ive seen with the HD is if a cast brings a question back and there is no one there to form a panel.... they have to sit there and wait till hunters qualified to be on a panel arrive back at the club house thus delaying that cast with the question to go back out and finish there hunt time....

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 231

I am in favor of this change of the option of using hunt directors. It has been an aggravation in the past for us to get a MOH for any given hunt; so then we went and put several people through the MOH testing program and now have several available in our part of Upstate NY. However, if a MOH pulled out at the last minute, we were sometimes left holding the bag if we could not find a MOH at the last minute. Im not real excited about the HD not being able to hunt; we will have to set up some sort of rotation, because no active competitor is going to want to sit out too many hunts. At any rate, progress comes in small doses and this is in the right direction.

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 54

I think it is only fair to MOH that the HD can't hunt either. I think people will be surprised at how many people would be a HD if they were asked or given the opportunity. I think we should be glad that UKC thought of the clubs that were having trouble getting MOH and at least applaude them for trying to help fix a problem instead of complaining about it before it is even inuse.

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Just out of curiousity, do all the clubs have 2 members who are MOH's like they are suppose to? If so, how can it be so hard for some to get a MOH for their events?

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Texan by Birth---Virginian by Choice
Posts: 1375

not complaining about HD.......i agree it is a step forward........

as for MOH we have 5. and 4 BSJ's... but we still like to use MOH and BSj at times outside the club.....

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Marianna, Florida
Posts: 570

Ours has two. Both don`t hunt anymore and the last hunt one had to work and the other was on vacation. Got a guy 1 hr 1/2 to come and do it that wanted to hunt. I couldn`t make it do to family plans even though I am not a MOH`S.


I think it is the best thing ever for ukc to go to hunt directors. Alot of clubs local were thinking about straying away from ukc becuse it is to hard to get MOH. or they call at the last minute saying they can`t make it. I love to hunt PKC and AKC also and like the races it offers, and with that said I don`t want to become a MOH`s and end up getting called for every hunt within two hours if a MOH is needed. With the new Hunt Director each club should be able to supply a Hunt Director each time. I wouldn`t mind one bit serving as a Hunt Director at my clubs, and others in the club swapping out these responsibilities with me so I can hunt some.

These changes is definately a step up for UKC and they wll see more participates because of it.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

Saw where there was some discussion on the "option" to re-cast in situations where a dog that is out but not declared struck. Good points were made in that the rule is not very clear. I agree it is not. One of those things after the fact that we should probably have looked into and re-wrote the terminology when we had the opportunity. Could have, quite possibly, eliminated any questions in this regard had we done that.

The current terminology is as follows; ", then he must be turned loose with other dogs that are opening on trail and will recieve etc. etc.." Currently, whenever we have dogs treed and the tree is scored we can flip them back in to dogs even though they might not be declared struck right? Strike positions are simply all open in such a situation.

With the "option" change using the scenario described by elvis; the answer would be; yes, you have the "option" to re-cast to a dog that has not been declared struck. Just like you would under current rules when no dogs are declared treed after the scoring of a tree.

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quote:

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Originally posted by todd kellam
[B]I don't know...I guess I look at it different Brogy. I hate the idea of nobody being responsible for things that come up at the club house while casts are out. Whether it's a cast returning for another guide or simply a matter of keeping scorecards confidential as they are returned. If the HD is hunting, nobody is responsible.

/B]

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Thanks Allen for clarifing the option recast rule. That clears it up for me and I think it is a great improvement to the rules.

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: SOUTHEASTERN ILLINOIS
Posts: 1451

i don't like the hd idea, i understand the reasoning behind making it an option but i still think it gives the judge additional power to determine the outcome of a cast. from what I've seen there's noway to get an impartial panel at some hunts. but on the bright side since i'm gonna have to deal with the panel format in ukc now, i can just start hunting pkc instead.

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I believe eventually most of the individual clubs will become known as MOH clubs or HD clubs. I suppose some will use both but would think most clubs will go one way or the other. The clubs that find they are losing entries because of the choice they made will go to the choice that draws dogs. Down the road, we will probably see one or the other prevailing.
My guess would be that the MOH would prevail in the north and the HD will be more popular in the south. But that is just a guess.

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Harrod,OH
Posts: 130

quote:

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[i]Originally posted by Jamie Coolidge

One question tho Todd..........Can you object a panel member and ask for someone to replace them?? For instance lets say the HD appoints someone who has ties with a member of the cast with the question? (hunting partner,co-owner,cousin) [/B]

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

You could object I guess? I don't think that means they are obligated to change the panel but if you have reason for requesting a change I'd like to believe that they would take it into consideration?

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quote:

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Originally posted by crossbblues
the only problem ive seen with the HD is if a cast brings a question back and there is no one there to form a panel.... they have to sit there and wait till hunters qualified to be on a panel arrive back at the club house thus delaying that cast with the question to go back out and finish there hunt time....

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
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i like the idea!! i would just as soon have a moh, but is nice to have an option in case of a last minute emergency...

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