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Oak Ridge
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

Re: Hay Joe

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
Just wondering in your opinion which is wores a dog that line walks, pitches or wings with the front feet or is cow hocked ? just your opinion.
Stack him up or have a floor show

All of the gait irregularities that you mention here are faults, that are rooted in poor conformation. I would have to evaluate the structure of the dog that causes each of the flawed gaits and make a determination based upon the dog.

It would be very rare to have a class of dogs where I would have to choose the "lesser of the evils"....and from my view point, the gaiting of the dog gives me the foundation for evaluating the dogs on the bench.

What you are not talking into account Mr. Meyer is that the second part of the evaluation of the conformation of coon hounds is a bench display, where I get the opportunity to get my hands on the dog....to truly evaluate the bone structure, and that is why the bench portion of the show is important...

Additionally, Ive seen handlers cause poor gaiting in dogs by not understanding head position, and it's affect on gaiting......so as I've said, what is the cause of the poor gait?

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08-13-2008 12:44 PM

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pegjerben
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: indiana
Posts: 908

Re: Re: Hay Joe

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge

Additionally, Ive seen handlers cause poor gaiting in dogs by not understanding head position, and it's affect on gaiting......so as I've said, what is the cause of the poor gait? [/B]

so what is the best head position to enable the dog to gait properly? I know in the show ring the dog's head is up, held proudly. But, watching my dogs run around the yard, they can also have that 'nose to the ground' and move just as smoothly. (and I'm curious, not being a smart *ss)

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08-13-2008 01:37 PM

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cooondawg
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Registered: May 2007
Location: WV
Posts: 55

Re: coondog

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
Quote!
"esp ones that have held licens for a long time".
I have observed some that have not had theirs licens long that I thought should be evaluated. I will go a bit further WHEN YOU WEAR OUT SEVSRAL VEHICLES TRAVELING ON THE SHOW CIRCUIT AND NOW PAY WAY OVER $3.75 A GALLON FOR GAS YOU DESERVE MOER THAN JUST SOME"YAH HOO" PICKING THE BREED HE HUNTS OR SHOWS. I DON'T CARE IF HE OR SHE HAS HAD THEIR LICENS FOR A LONG TIME OR SHORT TIME.
What u think.
Jump right in.

totally agree. there are yahoos at both ends of the spectrum.

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08-13-2008 01:51 PM

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Oak Ridge
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

Re: Re: Re: Hay Joe

quote:
Originally posted by pegjerben
so what is the best head position to enable the dog to gait properly? I know in the show ring the dog's head is up, held proudly. But, watching my dogs run around the yard, they can also have that 'nose to the ground' and move just as smoothly. (and I'm curious, not being a smart *ss)

Peggy,

What I was referring to is those handlers that want to "lift" the head, and in doing so nearly lift the dog's front feet off the ground, which in turn causes the dog's front legs to wing out with each step.

A "relaxed" dog that is well broke to lead, not straining against the lead to get to the bench, or swipe a hamburger out of a spectator hands is best!

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08-13-2008 02:04 PM

pegjerben
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: indiana
Posts: 908

Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Joe

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge

A "relaxed" dog that is well broke to lead, not straining against the lead to get to the bench, or swipe a hamburger out of a spectator hands is best! [/B]

yeah, those hamburgers will get you every time

thanks for the answer, that's what I was wanting to know.

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08-13-2008 03:22 PM

blueticker
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, Ks
Posts: 5398

When you hear the judge say," I am not picking the best looking dog on the bench but the one that gates the best". Why don't we call it a gaiting show and not a bench show. The gaiting deal just allows the judge anouther out to be political. The political deal goes from the local club clear to the top. The title should read, "Who's Who in coonhound showing". There is a few judges that will still select the dog and not the handler.

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08-13-2008 04:00 PM

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Oak Ridge
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:
Originally posted by blueticker
When you hear the judge say," I am not picking the best looking dog on the bench but the one that gates the best". Why don't we call it a gaiting show and not a bench show. The gaiting deal just allows the judge anouther out to be political. The political deal goes from the local club clear to the top. The title should read, "Who's Who in coonhound showing". There is a few judges that will still select the dog and not the handler.

If that is an accusation that by looking at the dogs gait, to establish a foundation for what you see and feel on the bench.....I (as one of the judges that judges the WHOLE dog) as being "political"....you might need to read the rules.

UKC Bench Show Rules:

30. "Dogs must be evaluated both while gaited and shown on the bench. In order to properly evaluate the coonhound, the dog must be compared to the standard on the bench to assess its conformation and then gaited to determine the efficiency and athleticism of the dog�s locomotion."

It's not a beauty contest...it is a conformation event.....and as far as I am concerned.....by using gaiting, and evaluating the gait, and doing some of the evaluation of the dogs on the ground...I'm taking the handler OUT of the equation. The rules are clear....evaluation of locomotion is a part of the competition, and I don't see anywhere where the beauty portion is "more important".

A "good" handler can cover up all manner of poor conformation on a bench, a feat that is darn near impossible when the dog is moving across the ring.....

I don't show dogs, and I could not possibly care any less about "who" wins....I don't follow the politics of showing, and I'm about to send in my judges card because I get tired of the accusations that judges are political......

Simple fact is that knowing the breed standards, understanding structure, and some good old fashioned "stock sense" is what makes a good judge....and comments such as the one above run more "good judges" off.....and create the scenario where the politicos are the only ones left.

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08-13-2008 04:18 PM

blueticker
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Location: Columbus, Ks
Posts: 5398

Joe, that is why a included a few judges are straigt up. If anyone doesn't believe dog shows, cattle shows, cat shows, horse shows, etc..... isn't plitical, then they haven't shown much.

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08-13-2008 04:45 PM

smokey7
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thousands of supposed "coonhounds" bein born all over the country that backtrack, won't tree, slick tree, start fights with other dogs, bite people, and don't have enough brains to find there own food bowl and yall are worried about how the idiot walks. Pathetic.

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08-13-2008 04:47 PM

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Oak Ridge
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:
Originally posted by smokey7
thousands of supposed "coonhounds" bein born all over the country that backtrack, won't tree, slick tree, start fights with other dogs, bite people, and don't have enough brains to find there own food bowl and yall are worried about how the idiot walks. Pathetic.

Sheep,

Thousands of folks who are willing to have a conversation, learn, and understand.....

I'm NOT going to worry about the one person who is not capable of understanding the conversation....

You don't meet the breed standards, and are a little "ill"...I'm afraid I'm gonna have to excuse you from consideration in this class....

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08-13-2008 04:56 PM

Christy
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylva, North Carolina (the far Western Tip of the State)
Posts: 10272

quote:
Originally posted by jackback
UKC Bench Show Rules:

30. "Dogs must be evaluated both while gaited and shown on the bench. In order to properly evaluate the coonhound, the dog must be compared to the standard on the bench to assess its conformation and then gaited to determine the efficiency and athleticism of the dog�s locomotion."

You can take that for what it is worth... sounds like a lawyer wrote that rule...!

WHAT THAT MEANS IS THIS....

YOU GOT TO LOOK AT THE DOG ON THE GROUND AND ON THE BENCH.

A GOOD HANDLER CAN HIDE ALL KINDS OF FAULTS ON THE BENCH.

BUT I DONT CARE HOW GOOD THEY ARE, THEY CANNOT HIDE THEM ON THE GROUND IN THE DOGS MOVEMENT.

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08-13-2008 05:06 PM

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smokey7
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quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Sheep,

Thousands of folks who are willing to have a conversation, learn, and understand.....

I'm NOT going to worry about the one person who is not capable of understanding the conversation....

You don't meet the breed standards, and are a little "ill"...I'm afraid I'm gonna have to excuse you from consideration in this class....

not ill, just differing on opinion. Your slick treed if you think how sexy a dog walks really matters. Sorry joe, your just slick treed.

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08-13-2008 05:07 PM

Oak Ridge
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:
Originally posted by smokey7
not ill, just differing on opinion. Your slick treed if you think how sexy a dog walks really matters. Sorry joe, your just slick treed.

Typical "city boy" talk....

Sheep, I've been looking at livestock of all kinds for a lot of years...and dogs are no different.

If you insist on flapping your gums about the study of conformation, and equating it to a beauty contest....then go ahead...you are simply demonstrating how much you really don't know....

Like I said...you don't meet the breed standards, might have an underbite, are not quite broke to lead....and that's not to mention that you are babbling....

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08-13-2008 05:20 PM

fletch
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: Hillman, MI
Posts: 101

I think one of the most important reasons for being concerned with how a dog gaits is the time and money it takes to develop a coon hound and not have them last because they were not structurally correct and sound. I don't think a dog or any other performance animal can reach their potential if it hurts to do your job.

Gary

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08-13-2008 05:31 PM

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Larry Atherton
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Hey Joe,

Are ya bored???? Even if ya cut and pasted all that it would have took awhile.

And to top it off ... talk about a tuff crowd!!!!!!!!

I think I will stick to the nice and safe discussions such as ivermectin or inbreeding.

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08-13-2008 05:48 PM

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Oak Ridge
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Hey Joe,

Are ya bored???? Even if ya cut and pasted all that it would have took awhile.

And to top it off ... talk about a tuff crowd!!!!!!!!

I think I will stick to the nice and safe discussions such as ivermectin or inbreeding.

Yup.....bored to tears at times.

That was a cut and paste from a document that I have on my computer....I read too much and often save stuff for later study...

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08-13-2008 05:59 PM

jda
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Registered: Dec 2004
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each breed according to breed standards have alittle different movement,so how about having a standard of gaiting in the rule book for each breed...

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08-13-2008 06:11 PM

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H. L. Meyer
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

bluticking:it

I still like the floor show idea better. Hay babe stay here I am going run over there and watch the floor sho. See how that flows politicaly the whole show . What you think. O yea turh left and gass it. H L Meyer

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08-14-2008 09:15 PM

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smokey7
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quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Typical "city boy" talk....

Sheep, I've been looking at livestock of all kinds for a lot of years...and dogs are no different.

If you insist on flapping your gums about the study of conformation, and equating it to a beauty contest....then go ahead...you are simply demonstrating how much you really don't know....

Like I said...you don't meet the breed standards, might have an underbite, are not quite broke to lead....and that's not to mention that you are babbling....

This is putting the cart way before the horse. How bet lets get a higher percentage of coondog pups born than can naturally go out and tree there OWN real live coon before worrying about how a dog walks. When grandnites no longer have to rely on a feederbucket to get a coon treed then maybe lets move on to the cosmetic side of it.

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08-14-2008 09:51 PM

Lee Currens Jr.
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Re: bluticking:it

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
I still like the floor show idea better. Hay babe stay here I am going run over there and watch the floor sho. See how that flows politicaly the whole show . What you think. O yea turh left and gass it. H L Meyer

dont tell her to stay its come on baby do the locomotion with me
soul train in the 70s wasnt it.i hope mine is 1 of those mossie
around on a loose lead lord knows i whip him all the way around a corn field last night surley he knows who leads who by now

Last edited by Lee Currens Jr. on 08-15-2008 at 02:46 AM

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jackback
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Registered: Sep 2006
Location:
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quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Sheep,

Thousands of folks who are willing to have a conversation, learn, and understand.....

I'm NOT going to worry about the one person who is not capable of understanding the conversation....

You don't meet the breed standards, and are a little "ill"...I'm afraid I'm gonna have to excuse you from consideration in this class....

I just glad to figure out where ol' sheep was hiding!!

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08-15-2008 02:43 AM

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Oak Ridge
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:
Originally posted by smokey7
This is putting the cart way before the horse. How bet lets get a higher percentage of coondog pups born than can naturally go out and tree there OWN real live coon before worrying about how a dog walks. When grandnites no longer have to rely on a feederbucket to get a coon treed then maybe lets move on to the cosmetic side of it.

Jason,

I tried the smart *ss approach, and it bounced off....so let me break it down for you a little.

It's not about "cosmetics"...that's what I've been trying to say...it is about FUNCTION. It's about STRUCTURE...not how "pretty".

Lets say we get to your mythical higher percentage of pups born that make coondogs...you want them breaking down by the time they are six years old because they are not structurally sound? They quit hunting because they are hurting due to structural problems?

It's one of the building blocks....not a separate building.

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08-15-2008 03:55 AM

smokey7
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quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Jason,

I tried the smart *ss approach, and it bounced off....so let me break it down for you a little.

It's not about "cosmetics"...that's what I've been trying to say...it is about FUNCTION. It's about STRUCTURE...not how "pretty".

Lets say we get to your mythical higher percentage of pups born that make coondogs...you want them breaking down by the time they are six years old because they are not structurally sound? They quit hunting because they are hurting due to structural problems?

It's one of the building blocks....not a separate building.

Do you really think, or know of, dogs that start breaking down physically at 6 years old???????????? I just haven't seen it. You been around longer than me and seen more dogs than me, have you seen that much? Now, i agree, that is a bad thing. My dog was in her prime at 7 years old.

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08-15-2008 03:59 AM

Oak Ridge
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Jason,

I used that as an illustration. And I think it probably got your attention....

There will always be feeder bucket dogs, and there will always be folks that insist upon conformation events as being "cosmetic".....

Form follows function....if we ignore the form, then we stand to lose the function.

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08-15-2008 04:29 AM

Emily
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Location: West Kill, NY
Posts: 2047

Joe

In your opinion, how fast do you like to see a dog move when he is gaited?
The reason I ask is that I have a dog with what I consider to be an extraordinarily fine gait, but I have little show experience with hounds. When I have entered this dog in shows, several different judges have reprimanded me for moving him along too quickly. I think a trot shows how well he moves better than a slow walk, but apparently a trot is not traditional in UKC shows. I haven't seen anything about the pace of the gait in ukc rules or breed standards. I'd like to show this dog's gait off to best advantage. Is it ok to move him along at a brisk walk for me?

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08-15-2008 06:19 AM