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Michael Taynor
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 178

Here is my 2cents worth. I think the "power" in Hardwood Bozo came from Melody Bill through his mother Rutans Bear Creek Princess. No I didn't think of that myself, my Uncle Tom Rutan who owned Princess and her mother Bear Creek Pam, hunted with Melody Bill and says that Princess and her offspring down through 4 or 5 generations were built like Melody Bill and for many more generations hunted like Bill. Fast track drivers, hard tree dogs, accurate, not an ill hair. I think Harry was promoted so much he was given much of the credit that should have gone to Melody Bill. I am not taking anything away from Harry, but I still believe Melody Bill deserves more credit.

Michael

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Old Post 07-09-2008 03:43 PM
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Larry Atherton
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

My interest in Harry went back to Ohio Diamond. Diamond was out of Harry and Penny. She and similiar bred dogs crossed really well on Mr. Oliver Close's Jack and Little Jack dogs.

My dogs are back massed on old Jack, and I looked to see what had worked for Mr. Close. As I researched Mr. Close's crosses, it became evident that he used several females that had Harry (usually through Diamond) pretty close.

The long and short of it though is I have never hunted with any dogs directly out of Harry so I don't have such first hand knowledge.

I have heard the issue about agressiveness, but I also heard it went back alittle further too.

As far as pedigrees go, Michael, I believe many dogs don't get their deserved credit because of a more famous dog in the pedigree. That is a part of human nature.

Overall, this is an interesting topic. I am surprised Harry's offspring being hot nosed though. Harry's sire surely wasn't known for being a hot nosed dog. I have never heard of Hershberger dogs being too hot nosed either. Harry has quite of bit of them behind him not too far back. I am not saying it isn't true ... just that it surprises me.

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Michael Taynor
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 178

Princess and her offspring I have hunted with are all cold nosed.

Michael

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Old Post 07-09-2008 05:30 PM
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Larry Atherton
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Doug,

All I can do is relate to what I had here at my place through the years, and I have had many more completely laid back easy going dogs than the opposite. One old male I had would let pups play tug-a-war with his ears. I also had 2 here that were triple Jack bred that got ate off a tree by a bear dog, and never treed with a strange dog again. Yes, they weren't competition dogs, but they sure looked good when turned loose in late January.

I can't say anything about a bad rep or heresay ... all I know is what I know.

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Old Post 07-09-2008 08:26 PM
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CHERRY CREEK
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio
Posts: 156

I have been to Oliver Close's house a few times to hunt and I hunted with little Jack more than any other dog. Little Jack was ouchy around the tree. However, I never seen him just grab a dog and shake them. He would definitley hold his own. One of the best females that I have ever hunted with in my 25 plus years of hunting was a dog named Squaw that Rick Mullins owned and she was off Little Jack. I hunted with her a lot. She was a coon dog from a very young age.

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Old Post 07-09-2008 08:35 PM
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chuck west
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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 10675

Good older post,,,looks like some guys figured things out ,,lol

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Old Post 12-06-2012 07:01 PM
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Jackson87
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

Why is it that in every magazine you open you see...Harry this and Harry that and Oh man this dog is double harry bred??Is this just a smoke screen there tryin to brainwash people with EVERY month?

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Old Post 12-12-2012 02:56 AM
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Larry Atherton
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Jackson,

They aren't talking about the original Harry in the books.

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Old Post 12-12-2012 03:08 PM
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Ray&Luie
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Al
Posts: 3070

Harry

there was a dog down here, in Mobile back in the 80s out of Harry named Alabama River rock, he was chop all the way if i remember right , hard tree dog , red headed like harry built very simular , not a track burner , average id say, was campained by a man in a wheel chair named Bobby Tillman, i saw some of his pups , never was impressed to much by them , but a friend of mine had a hound named Sundown jim out of Coon stopper and harry that could flat run and tree you a coon, he was trashy till he got a little age on him but got better when he was older , never used a E Collor on him as far as i know, still some dog around here that has his blood in them. none had very good mouths other than old jim .....

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Last edited by Ray&Luie on 12-12-2012 at 04:36 PM

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Old Post 12-12-2012 04:27 PM
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BGathright
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Fort Worth , Texas
Posts: 221

quote:
Originally posted by Jackson87
Why is it that in every magazine you open you see...Harry this and Harry that and Oh man this dog is double harry bred??Is this just a smoke screen there tryin to brainwash people with EVERY month?


2 different dogs.

They are talking about Ball's Stylish Hickory Nut Harry, not the original Hickory Nut Harry.

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Old Post 12-12-2012 07:25 PM
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Jackson87
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

10-4,I see what your saying.Cool old thread with some nice pics of hounds from way back.

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Old Post 12-13-2012 02:42 AM
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Deron Shuler
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Blairsville Ga
Posts: 29

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Taynor
Here is my 2cents worth. I think the "power" in Hardwood Bozo came from Melody Bill through his mother Rutans Bear Creek Princess. No I didn't think of that myself, my Uncle Tom Rutan who owned Princess and her mother Bear Creek Pam, hunted with Melody Bill and says that Princess and her offspring down through 4 or 5 generations were built like Melody Bill and for many more generations hunted like Bill. Fast track drivers, hard tree dogs, accurate, not an ill hair. I think Harry was promoted so much he was given much of the credit that should have gone to Melody Bill. I am not taking anything away from Harry, but I still believe Melody Bill deserves more credit.

Michael



White faced, calico ear, big headed power house reproducer from Hickory Nut Harry?????????? Wont never convince me Harry was his daddy.......No doubt a lot of things went on in those days that we will never know. Possibly Princess and others are for sure to be credited for his success but there was a real power house reproducer in that country in those days. Problem was you just couldnt sale pups from him.....but you could put papers on pups before DNA.....

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Old Post 12-13-2012 03:04 AM
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n.cash
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Elkton, Virginia
Posts: 355

HICKORY NUT

She was out of Harry X Beaver Lake Lou.any info on that cross.

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Old Post 12-14-2012 01:09 PM
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Lawsreddog
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Registered: Sep 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 486

harry's dam

wasn't harry's dam clover bred?????

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msinc
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Re: harry's dam

quote:
Originally posted by Lawsreddog
wasn't harry's dam clover bred?????


I think you are talking about the later "Harry", Stylish Harry. Owens Hardwood Bozo was Clovers sire and a puppy of Ball's Hickory Nut Harry {the older one} so his mom couldn't be Clover bred...Clover wasn't thought of yet back then.
You gotta be over at least 50 to have even remembered the dogs being talked about on this thread.

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Old Post 05-22-2014 02:54 AM
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stonehill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: central MO
Posts: 1120

Stylish Harry had a clover bred mother. The original Balls Hickory Nut Harry had a mother named Balls Candy who was a daughter of what I consider the greatest stud dog of all time , the great Hershbergers Oklahoma Spot.
I disagree with those of you who thought old Harry put too much trailing type dog in his pups , they would cold trail but they also would have a coon when they treed. I know that to suit me our current walkers need more of this trait.

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Lawsreddog
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Registered: Sep 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 486

well IM not 50

But my Dad and uncle bred alot of dogs off balls harry so I dont k ow too much about the walkers. But theyve told me alot so it was the 2ND Harrys dam that was clover bred.

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tarriverwalkers
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msinc
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Re: well IM not 50

quote:
Originally posted by Lawsreddog
But my Dad and uncle bred alot of dogs off balls harry so I dont k ow too much about the walkers. But theyve told me alot so it was the 2ND Harrys dam that was clover bred.


Yep, that's the one...the names make things confusing. It don't help that they were both very popular dogs and you see them in a lot of pedigrees. It's kinda scary when you go back 6 generations on a pedigree and see all the same dogs top and bottom. I have always heard that it's not good to breed them too tight but that seems like exactly what is happening.

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tarriverwalkers
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TAR RIVER WALKERS

GRNITE GRCH PKC CH 'PR' HARRY FOCKER ALL GRAND semen pup
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2015 world qualified

PR Tar River allnite Maggie (1st,2nd) 2 BFMOS
FOCKER PUP

GRAND CH NITECH PR MR COOPER (3)
FOCKER pup

NITECH CH PR TAR RIVER COME GET'CHA SUM(4WIN GRAND) ALL GRAND

NITCH GRCH WCH HARDWOOD BLITZ ATTACK (4 WINS TOWARD GRAND)

NITECH EVIL'S CRAZY COODER (3 win toward grand) ALL GRAND PEDIGREE
2010 World Qualified

GRNITE GRCH GRWCH(PR) TAR RIVER TREE CRAVEN RAVEN

3rd placed RQE QUALIFED
2010 World Qualified
2010 World Finalist Top 100
2010 finished 21st
2011 RQE QUALIFIED
2011 world Qualified
2014 world Qualified
2015 world Qualified

Grch 'Pr' Tar River Tree Shak'in Bella Ann
(World champion Mr CLEAN PUP

NiteCh Ch Tar River Under Moonlite Hanna has (3wins)
(World champion BIG D X NITECH PR Thee Andria Gale)

Tar River Coon Craven Dixie-chik
World champion Mr CLEAN PUP

CH NITECH PKC GOLD CH(PR) TAR RIVER Queen

NITECH GR CH STRIGHT TEQUILA NITE

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