Registered: Jan 2006
Location: bronaugh,MO
Posts: 2595

quote:

---

Originally posted by longshot
[QUOTE]Originally posted by longshot
[B]An absolutely worn out question that is on here oftin and never agreed on.


Now you see why I wrote the above post..... As for face barking , I wont tolorate it in my dogs and if I cant break them of it , they are gone...Not even a hard decision..

As for scratching a dog for it, the rule say you have to have BOTH interferance and aggression...I disagree with Jim and/ or Allen about face barking not being aggressive behavior. I think it is aggresive behavior , but that alone is not a scratchable offence.

If, in the process of face barking , contact is made and it intimidates or agitates another dog in any way , then that is interferance and scratchable.

On my cast , I inform the handler of a face barker that they are just one step away from a scratch and will be watched closely for interferance on every tree. You dont have to be rude or face bark yourself to make the point.

Tree jacking is NOT aggessive behavior. It is just an undesireable tree style.

The act of treeing is not a ladys tea party and some bumping and grinding is gonna happen and dogs should be able to tolorate it without getting mad or jellous .

I do hate face barkers , but remember , they have to interfere with another dogs ability to perform to be scratched under the rules, which in my mind includes any kind of contact during face barking.

You have to be able to take a good cussing in todays world , but you dont have to take being pushed around along with the cussing !!!

---

probably the smartest post Ive ever seen on this entire board.

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What happens when the tree jacker lands on top of another dog and causes that dog to face bark at the tree jacker? In my mind the tree jacker (non-aggressive behavior) instigated the "face barking" (aggressive behavior) situation. In my opinion, tree jacking can lead to undesireable situations just as quickly as face barking. Maybe not as frequently, but it can & will cause problems sometimes.

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Location: Cental Texas
Posts: 653

As Allen said:
face barking is in fact a form of aggressive behaviour. Rule 6(c) does not make provisions however to scratch a dog for face barking alone. If the face barking is in fact interfering with another dog's ability to perform then the cryteria required of both aggression and interference has been met and the dog would be scratched and reported as such.

Let's all just get into the mind set that face barking is 'aggressive behaviour" and in most cases the fact barking is done for the intent of interferring with the other dogs. If everyone would look at this as the rules read! And then start dealing with it, each and every time it happens, we could put a stop to some major problems in our hunts.

And don't make excuses saying, well a dog needs to be able to take that type of treeing from other dogs. I don't think anyone really believes that. I think it is just a cop-out on what they know their dogs are doing wrong.

I don't want my dog in that cast, and most other hunters don't either. It's that few that have those types of dogs that ruin things for the rest.

I told ya'll..... this is MY pet peve.... LOL

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Jim, not sure what discussion you might be referring to as I am of the mind-set that face barking is in fact a form of aggressive behaviour. Rule 6(c) does not make provisions however to scratch a dog for face barking alone. If the face barking is in fact interfering with another dog's ability to perform then the cryteria required of both aggression and interference has been met and the dog would be scratched and reported as such.

Also to clarify any misconceptions, this was not a new rule two years ago. The UKC's interpretation on 6(c) has been like this since day one of 6(c). It's simply that publicly more emphasis has been put on the official interpretation of 6(c) in the last two years.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by evan ashley
heres an input and probally going to get some negative response but i don't care. get a dog that is more independent and you usually wont have to worry about that if they are by thereselves all night.

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just my input i can't stand a dog that covers and i get my brains beat out a lot on feeder buckets but i guess that is kinda why i like the rules of other kc's better because usually after the first drop you are only striking for a quater. but then again all you had to do is win your cast win them and you are also in.

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I agree with ya Mark.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry West
As Allen said:
face barking is in fact a form of aggressive behaviour. Rule 6(c) does not make provisions however to scratch a dog for face barking alone. If the face barking is in fact interfering with another dog's ability to perform then the cryteria required of both aggression and interference has been met and the dog would be scratched and reported as such.

Let's all just get into the mind set that face barking is 'aggressive behaviour" and in most cases the fact barking is done for the intent of interferring with the other dogs. If everyone would look at this as the rules read! And then start dealing with it, each and every time it happens, we could put a stop to some major problems in our hunts.

And don't make excuses saying, well a dog needs to be able to take that type of treeing from other dogs. I don't think anyone really believes that. I think it is just a cop-out on what they know their dogs are doing wrong.

I don't want my dog in that cast, and most other hunters don't either. It's that few that have those types of dogs that ruin things for the rest.

I told ya'll..... this is MY pet peve.... LOL

---

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
Posts: 1184

quote:

---

Originally posted by longshot
[QUOTE]Originally posted by longshot
[B]An absolutely worn out question that is on here oftin and never agreed on.


Now you see why I wrote the above post..... As for face barking , I wont tolorate it in my dogs and if I cant break them of it , they are gone...Not even a hard decision..

As for scratching a dog for it, the rule say you have to have BOTH interferance and aggression...I disagree with Jim and/ or Allen about face barking not being aggressive behavior. I think it is aggresive behavior , but that alone is not a scratchable offence.

If, in the process of face barking , contact is made and it intimidates or agitates another dog in any way , then that is interferance and scratchable.

On my cast , I inform the handler of a face barker that they are just one step away from a scratch and will be watched closely for interferance on every tree. You dont have to be rude or face bark yourself to make the point.

Tree jacking is NOT aggessive behavior. It is just an undesireable tree style.

The act of treeing is not a ladys tea party and some bumping and grinding is gonna happen and dogs should be able to tolorate it without getting mad or jellous .

I do hate face barkers , but remember , they have to interfere with another dogs ability to perform to be scratched under the rules, which in my mind includes any kind of contact during face barking.

You have to be able to take a good cussing in todays world , but you dont have to take being pushed around along with the cussing !!!

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

gfults, attitudes like yours are what keep ill dogs in the hunts! There is a very fine line between a dog who will stay "no matter what" and an ill dog. Most dogs like that end up crossing the line.

Reminds me of the handler who stated that his dog was not ill but if any dog bumped him, face barked him, or crowded his space then he would defend himself. In short he was ILL at the tree!

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I certainly dont consider myself an expert, but i have hunted raised and trained dogs for about 30 years. I see the aggressive dog issue as only getting worse in the future,and i will tell ya why. Any group of dogs weather it be 2 or 20 will strive to establish a pecking order, its their first priority and its there nature. If you dont agree with this just sit down and watch a litter of pups interact for 10 minutes over a soup bone and you will be able to pick out the boss. Almost every coon hunter is proud to say his dog started young, we brag about it and we (breed for it) We have all seen the puppy ads that read BOLD,GRITTY,FEARLESS and so on. I guess the point i am trying to make is that we are breeding the agressive tree dog and then when we get it we are dissapointed with the results. Lets face it guys if you took the top 20 stud dogs in the country right now and threw them in the same pen all hell would break loose. Its a plain and simple law of nature, (ALPHA DOGS DONT SHARE WELL) and if ya think ya can train it out of them your kidding yourself. So what do we do about it, well if we consistently scratch these aggressive dogs they dont get titles and if they dont get titles they wont be used as often for breeding. The trade off will probably be fewer of those pups that are doing it all at 6 months but we would have a kinder and gentler tree dog.JMO

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

quote:

---

Originally posted by gfults
I can tell you this! You or anybody else that thinks ur gonna warn me and/or scratch my dog for just face barking are in for a rude awakening!! I will take that to the MOH and I will file a formal complaint against you for cheating!! YOU CANNOT WARN OR SCRATCH A DOG JUST FOR FACE BARKING!!

---

gfults, why are you blasting on me?? I agreed totally with UKC on this one........

Im not sure if you cant read well , or cant understand what you just read !

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Last edited by longshot on 07-01-2008 at 07:45 PM

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
Posts: 1184

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
gfults, attitudes like yours are what keep ill dogs in the hunts! There is a very fine line between a dog who will stay "no matter what" and an ill dog. Most dogs like that end up crossing the line.

Reminds me of the handler who stated that his dog was not ill but if any dog bumped him, face barked him, or crowded his space then he would defend himself. In short he was ILL at the tree!

---

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

quote:

---

Originally posted by gfults
Ur trying to tell me that if a dog defends himself at a tree he is ill??? U have lost ur mind!! If someone hits u in the mouth, are u gonna hit back?? Yes u would!! There is a HUGE difference between a dog that stays treed and a dog that is ill! I can tell u dont have a clue what a mean dog is!

longshot, u said in ur cast u would warn a dogs owner that they are one step away from being scratched for face barking! You cant scratch for face barking! I have an 11 year old bitch that blows on every tree shes on, yet shes NEVER been in a dog fight! The Jack dog I pushed last year would literally let pups hang off his ears at a tree and never even look at him. Ive seen him do it. A dog at a tree wants to blow and bang at him on a tree, hes gonna blow and bang back.. If any of u had the type of dog that just couldnt hardly be beat at the hunts, yet he was rough around the tree, ya'll would automatically become more tolerant of blowing and face barking! if u say u wouldnt, then ur a stone cold liar!!

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gfults , I will try this ONE last time to get it through your knoggin.. It takes Aggressive behavior AND interference... Face barking meets the criteria for aggressive behavior and all that is needed with it is some kind of interference to scratch.... Here is my quote AGAIN from above... Read slowly and carefully..

((( Quote by longshot. As for scratching a dog for it, the rules say you have to have BOTH interferance and aggression...I disagree with Jim and/ or Allen about face barking not being aggressive behavior. I think it is aggresive behavior , but that alone is not a scratchable offence.
If, in the process of face barking , contact is made and it intimidates or agitates another dog in any way , then that is interferance and scratchable.
On my cast , I inform the handler of a face barker that they are just one step away from a scratch and will be watched closely for interferance on every tree. You dont have to be rude or face bark yourself to make the point. ))) Quote unQuote..........

I made that comment before Allen explained UKC'S position and I agree with his clarified statement.. It is not that difficult to understand..

PS.. I guess I meet your criteria for a '' stone cold liar'' because I wont tolerate an Ill dog... Good day to you...

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uhhhhduhhhh

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I dont understand how face barking is considered agression? If you had a slick jude all he would have to see was a dog at the base of a tree barking and the dog beside him move around to the other side of the tree and then he would get scratched. I think a dog should be able to hold pressure but face barking shouldnt be considered aggression. Agression is growling and fighting. All im trying to say is any judge can scratch you for several things that he "says he seen."

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Disputanta, Virginia
Posts: 1524

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Allen once made the statement that jacking the tree and bumping a dog around the tree is not aggressive behavior. Grabbing another dog because it got bumped IS aggressive behavior and should be scratched. So we need our dogs to be able to take the jumping and the bumping that goes on when mutiple dogs are treed together and if they can't take that kind of incidental contact around a tree without getting aggressive then they won't or shouldn't last long in a nite hunt.

---

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Personally I think that the dog that jacks the tree and causes the fight should be the one scratched for being the aggressor.

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by longshot

If, in the process of face barking , contact is made and it intimidates or agitates another dog in any way , then that is interferance and scratchable.

---

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: streetsboro ohio
Posts: 411

in the new advisor it stated that a dpg who is jacking the tree even if they only do it in one spot and the other dog is movin all around the tree if the dog that is movin around gets landed on by your dog that hasn't moved and that dog bites and it and they go back to treein satisfactory no dog is scratched . imo that is a mean dog but u can't scratch it

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Jim, not sure what discussion you might be referring to as I am of the mind-set that face barking is in fact a form of AGRESSIVE BEHAVIOUR!!!!!!!!!!. Rule 6(c) does not make provisions however to scratch a dog for face barking alone. If the face barking is in fact interfering with another dog's ability to perform then the cryteria required of both aggression and interference has been met and the dog would be scratched and reported as such.

Also to clarify any misconceptions, this was not a new rule two years ago. The UKC's interpretation on 6(c) has been like this since day one of 6(c). It's simply that publicly more emphasis has been put on the official interpretation of 6(c) in the last two years.

---

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Last edited by MikeO on 07-02-2008 at 07:39 AM

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Disputanta, Virginia
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quote:

---

Originally posted by hntwitcurs
in the new advisor it stated that a dpg who is jacking the tree even if they only do it in one spot and the other dog is movin all around the tree if the dog that is movin around gets landed on by your dog that hasn't moved and that dog bites and it and they go back to treein satisfactory no dog is scratched . imo that is a mean dog but u can't scratch it

---

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: OXFORD NC
Posts: 1344

quote:

---

Originally posted by RedBones4me
If I were to hit you and you hit me back, would that mean that you are ill. No, that would mean that you are normal and will defend yourself. The dog jacking the tree and lands on the other dog starts the fight, not the dog who got landed on and bites the jacker.

I have a dog that jacks the tree bad and I wont hunt it in the hunts because of that.

People are always talking about leaving the mean dogs at home, I think that they should leave the tree jackers their also.

Tree jacking is more likely to start a fight than anything else.

---

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If you have a hard tree dog, it is going to jack the tree at one point or another. That's just the way they are bred and it's almost impossible to train it out of them 100% of the time.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by longshot
gfults , I will try this ONE last time to get it through your knoggin.. It takes Aggressive behavior AND interference... Face barking meets the criteria for aggressive behavior and all that is needed with it is some kind of interference to scratch.... Here is my quote AGAIN from above... Read slowly and carefully..

((( Quote by longshot. As for scratching a dog for it, the rules say you have to have BOTH interferance and aggression...I disagree with Jim and/ or Allen about face barking not being aggressive behavior. I think it is aggresive behavior , but that alone is not a scratchable offence.
If, in the process of face barking , contact is made and it intimidates or agitates another dog in any way , then that is interferance and scratchable.
On my cast , I inform the handler of a face barker that they are just one step away from a scratch and will be watched closely for interferance on every tree. You dont have to be rude or face bark yourself to make the point. ))) Quote unQuote..........

I made that comment before Allen explained UKC'S position and I agree with his clarified statement.. It is not that difficult to understand..

PS.. I guess I meet your criteria for a '' stone cold liar'' because I wont tolerate an Ill dog... Good day to you...

---

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