Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

Texdog, There is not another Smokey River dog talked about or ever been the reproducer old Chief has been. Thats why I think the blood of Hammer III. put that reproducing in him. Untril that old blood was crossed on the Hammer dogs you heard nothing of them except the history of them nothing special added to the bluetick breed until the blood from Hammer III. and Spanky then you heard of some nice hounds being produced from this line. Why do you think that line was ever crossed on Hammer III. and Spanky ??? You know the answer Texdog.......Keep that Hammer blood alive...............IT WORKS

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4044

i appreciate you getting them out so quick after we talked. yea when im ready to breed her, if i decide to do so, i think 6 would be the right call. she is starting to come along pretty good. had her in the miss bboa hunt this past weekend and she didnt hunt like herself, but she did get split treed. she had never been hunted with that many dogs and she didnt want to stay treed with them after she opened up a few times on tree. she will get over that completely with time cause ive seen her tree with 2 other dogs on a few occasions and i will work with her on it. ive been hunting her pretty hard and im hoping the kill season will do her alot of good. i see little things she does that i really like and if i can fully finish her i think she can make nite champion. to qualify that i think most dogs that will consistantly tree a coon will make nite champion if put in enough hunts. shoot me a pm with number if you get a chance and ill catch you up on her and i have a few questions for ya. took out last nite and treed a coon by herself, i think for a first dog, she is a good fit for me and ill learn alot trying to make her into a sure nuff coon dog

rance

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the oldest ride in the park, but still the longest line.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

You would be getting Hammer III. Blood through Jet VII and a double shot of him through the Pride stock of dog. Who can predict what kind of dogs would be from this cross,, but for sure you would have as good as chance as to having some good hounds produced from this blood as any dogs living today. I believe also on Jet VI. mothers side she goes back to Hammer III. through that Uthcman blood in her. The Jet line are reproducers, and you could not pick a better man to deal with than Mr. Ed Meade he knows his stuff when it comes to a blue dogs.

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

Hey Texdog is your hounds without Hammer blood ???????

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 151

I try to do what I say I say I will as quick as possable. I am glad she is starting to came around for you. She has less hunting than most 1 year old dogs. I work nights and dont get to hunt as much as I would like. It was mentioned on here about breeding to Jet 7. He is a very nice dog. You probably got to hunt with him at Eds when you got Molly. One thing you have to rember is that Jet 6 produced him. Like I said a cross with 6 would be similar to the Jet 7 cross with 7s mother also being out of CW. I still have your phone number and will be calling you probably this weekend. Cell phone is free on weekends.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

Hey Country Mile, sure can, the numbers I was looking at was number of pups compared to the number of Grand Nite's and then Nite Champions. I've always said give me a dog that can tree coon, be it a me-to-dog, or one that gets lucky now and then and with enough hunts attended I'll make it a Nite Champion. BUT it changes some going to Grand Nite, and I've known dogs that went to their grave trying to make Grand.

Now, number don't account for a major part of a dog, because we know many dogs go to owners who do not competition hunt, but of those that did make it, I look at percentage, and then the number of Nite CH, but I'm more interested in those that made Grand Nite, their geographics, and some of the hunts they have won. Its kinda like seeing the where (location) when (how old) what (how did they do in competition) and how, what kinda of person is the owner of the dog. Its kinda of like a resume of the whole picture.

As for Smoke he is blood from the local area of VA that Everett lives in, making up what Everett and others from that area have used for years. Go far enough back and you will find Vaughn, Kelly Bragg, and some real old Smokey River, (just a shot of it).

Looking at total numbers for all the dogs listed is very impressive, but once you figure the percentage it gives it a more hollow look for some dogs, and fair for others.

As for what dogs do I keep, that should be obvious, Smokey II, and some of the older Uchtman blood, which works for me. I've had many of the lines out their today, most did not suit me, and did not work for me, so when I found one that did, I kept it, and it is still here today. I've just added some new blood when I crossed our Dual Grand Sue female, and the cross added a 1/4 new blood, we did not shy away from our ground work that has worked, but added something we hope will compliment what we have.

When I look at all those dogs listed, my personal feeling is that the Rebel Dog with the FEW number of pups compared to the number of Grand Nites and Nite Champions would stand out as a top producer, and I hunted with some of those dogs he produced, and they were coon dogs also.

So, that's my secret.......not hard to follow, and it works for me !!

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Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

I don't think anyone thought you had a secret in any blood you own, and also neither do we/they/I think you have any secret recipe for any more success than any one else with that bloodline you have. I don't see you taking home any more trophies with your blues as some of the rest do. I have seen that stock of dog yours included, and see nothing special in their looks or any different performance than any other line. So to say you are more successful with what you have there hunting than any other line would be a misleading statement if in fact that is what you are refering too. You sticking to that blood only is a thing only you can be proud of as a competition hunter, and your results as a winner don't reflect anything superior over any other line of blues.You maybe someday will have offspring from those hounds in other peoples hands that just might become a superior line .......WHO KNOWS........GOOD LUCK

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 486

SOME OF THESE STRAINS OF BLUETICKS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH ALL OF THESE GR NT'S WERE MADE IN THEIR OWN BACK YARD! THEY WILL NOT GET OUT OF THEIR HOME STATE OR HOME CLUB! THERE WERE ALSO BROTHERS, FRIENDS, AND NEIGHBORS , BEHIND THESE DOGS. GIVE ME 5 GOOD HANDLERS , AND PUT US IN OUR OWN BACK YARD, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THAT IT WOULD TAKE TO PUT A DOG IN THE REPRODUCERS LIST? WE SAY "TEAM BLUE?" BUT I BELIEVE THAT IT GOES LIKE THIS:
TEAM UTCHMAN, TEAM RAMBO, TEAM HAMMER, TEAM JET, TEAM SPANKY, TEAM DROOP AND THE LIST GOES ON ...... UNTIL WE TRUELY BECOME "TEAM BLUE" WITH ONE GOAL IN MIND TO BETTER THE BLUETICK BREED, WE ARE STUCK BEHIND THE WALKER DOGS AND THAT IS WHERE WE ARE DESTINED TO STAY!

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MACKIE MANNS SR

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I know didley squat......I have been huntin since I was 8, for fourteen years.....I dont try to stick with any one line, as there are very few dogs out there that are strictly bred from one 'line'.......and I agree with the 'team' statement made my mr manns.....I have smokey river, utchman, hammer, and jet v in my backyard.....I would love to get a chance to talk to and meet all yall experienced bluetickers, and learn what I can........there are so many good dogs and producers and breeders out there that I hardly knwo what to go to anymore......every one sayin that their dog is truly gonna make a difference in the bluetick breed, insinuating it is better than someones elses dogs, or line, yet where are they in 10 years? I woudl love to cross some of the hammer blood, or the dalton, or smokey II, but I dont know enough about them to make an educated guess abotu what to breed to, or what cross to get from......so I will probably continue to just pick up a pup here or there from ppl that I respect.......until I get to knwo a LOT more, I dont think I could do much breeding......I am gonna make one cross in a few months, first litter of hounds I have made, out of a son of bullet, thats out of a daughter of jet v, and a daughter to geronimo, and out of a daughter of albert......so I will be crossin smokey river, jet v, utchman, and hammer......who knows.........but they are both coondogs that get in the dark, and tree coon well enough to compete, and suit me.......enough of my ramblin.......any opinions are welcome......jus' an ole country boy.....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

Never in any of MY statements have I said I had anything better or worse than anyone else, Nor did I say anything of the sorts that my line won any more than anyone else. Those are your words, not mine. Country Mile asked ME what lines I liked, so I answered him, now if you want to play on a twist of words I am more than willing to play along, fact is it might get fun.

But I only stated what I like, nothing more, nothing less, and I did not flount my line around or held it in high order for anyone to read, I just made a simple statement to this individual as to my likes, and dislikes. As far as my winning compared to anyone elses, I've never measured it, don't realy care, as long as I have a good hunt, and see, talk with friends I've had a great time no matter where I go, and I don't make accusations that have no merit based on what someone else says, or does, but rather base an opinion on fact and knowledge of how something was achieved. But, I am there !!

So, your comments to me do not match what I again just read, but that is your assumption, not mine. I don't claim to be any better than anyone else, wasn't raised that way, and was taught better than that. I, like many other owners strive to come away from the next cross one better than the last, and any thought less than that is not working to better your line or breed.

What Mackie said is very true, going back to the Non-Hunting Judge at the ole local club level, and those of us who hunt remember those days. I'm not so sure anyone carries the banner for a specific linage of dogs, I don't call my dogs Uchtman bred, even though I have some of it in my line, I don't call my dogs Droop bred, even though it is of the same blood, I guess some do, and I would think that individuals who earned the names should use them, ie; Dave Dean.....Hammer line, The Uchtman boys.......Uchtman line, Warren Housler........Smokey River line, Ed Mead..........Jet Line, and others who have done so. Mackie has had Spanky, Spanky II, Pounder all coming from his dogs, should they be able to be called his line???

SURE he has earned it, and others have to, and what is wrong with that, individual pride is nothing to be ashamed of, but to be proud of the work and fortitude it took to build something better each time around. Looking around at the different crosses I think we do make inteligent crosses, knowing what complements each other and with this knowledge we work to better our breed. Little Rivalries fuel people to do better, and as long as the end result is for the TEAM we can overcome the walkers.

I closing I say Good Luck to all !!!!!!!!

__________________
Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

Last edited by Mark A. Hauck on 08-08-2003 at 04:44 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

I forgot to tell you what I added !!!! Duhhh

Old Sue is of course a Grandaughter of ole Smokey II, her Sire being Jimmy II,

Well, I bred her to Mark VanDeventers Pete Dog, his Dam being a Sister to Jimmy II, so I doubled up on that, as I like that, and seen many nice dogs from that line.

Now the new blood which Pete has is his top side, and I have also seen some dogs go from this linage so I thought I'd add a pinch to see what it will do,

Pete's top side being from Vinning's Runnin Bullet, from JBS Chief & SR Crazy's Blue Fly

Chief being from Spud & BB's J-Bell, and Fly being from Spare Time Spanky & Rob's Crazy. Only Time will tell, but I do feel that this introduction will add some qualities that will better what I already have, In my Humble Opinion And remember, it's only MY opinion.

My future plans will take a female from this cross (should she make the grade) and cross her back to Droop JR. thus putting the Smokey II back in again, once removed.

__________________
Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 486

SCOTT S, CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES. I THINK THAT THE ONLY WAY THAT THE BLUETICK BREED WILL EVER IMPROVE, IT IS GOING TO TAKE BLUETICKERS WITH TOP REPRODUCING FEMALES, IN MY OPINION THIS IS WHAT HAS PUT THE WALKER DOGS ON TOP. THEY FIND A DOG THAT IS REPRODUCING AND DISTANCE NOR MONEY SEEMS TO MATTER. THEY ARE LOOKING TO GET A WINNER. TAKE ANY GOOD BLUE REPRODUCING STUD DOG BREED 50 OF THE BEST FEMALES IN THE COUNTRY TO HIM AND WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD TAKE US AS A BREED?

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MACKIE MANNS SR

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Cartersville, Ga.
Posts: 337

Boys, it's not rocket science. We have closed the gap on the Walkers. I will be the first to give the devil his due. The Walkers are good. But............... Mackie said it quite well. We have a lot of teams. Take any of them and give them the resources and they will look good for a while.
The Walker team is better because that is what they are aiming for. Being better. Let one of them get a good stud or female and money and distance will not get in the way. The cross will happen. If we want to be better...............
Recognize the better hounds and get them together!!!!
It's not Rocket Science!!!!
Jealousy and vanity are dangerous. The Walker team refuse to lose if they can win. They WILL go to another team if they have something they need. The ones of you that have been around twenty years or more. Think back. The Walker boys had a pretty closed camp. They didn't need to go outside that much. But ole Blue and the other breeds too started putting the pressure on them. They were losing to some off breed hounds. We forced them to go to outside blood to stay on top of the competition game. They sure wouldn't have bred to other dogs than their own if they didn't have to. We did that. Now if you want to keep going forward,...... take a lesson.
Breed to what you need to to get what you need to be a winner. It's still hard to beat a coondog at the hunts. Just breed a better coondog and bring him. We can still have as many camps as we want. But we just need one TEAM. It's not a closed door but you do have to knock. Good luck to all. Harry.

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Mulberry Blue

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