Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Beaver Springs, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3316

it is unethical & immoral to get an abortion. That being said, I would also have to admit that being legal is a benefit to us woman too. If it was unlawful for a Dr. to perform an abortion, you can darn sure bet that in some back alley in almost every city in the USA, you will find someone with a rusty clothes hanger that will do it for a few bucks. Even before Wade vs. Roe, women were getting abortions, the only difference is that now they can get the proper care & councelling before & after the precedure.

As for the death penalty, don't get me started...............

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American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Mayer, MN
Posts: 920

Is there anything that you believe personally that you would say is always right or wrong for everyone else? It sounds to me like tolerance for others is more important to you than the moral convictions that you hold as personal. Makes me wonder how deeply you hold to your beliefs. Our society is fullof situations where we need to make judgements and respond to situations. You drive down the road you are always making judgements about and responding to drivers around you. Someone gets loud acting drunk in your neighborhood at night and starts recklessly shooting a gun off for whatever reason I bet you don't say that maybe it's God's will so you won't judge and call the police. Of course not, you want to protect you and others because that is morally right. To me I see lots of people really hold to the secular religion of tolerance over whatever their secondary affiliation is or is not. Sure we all have a right to our beliefs but when we jump to an easy position that it is something I wouldn't do but it's OK for someone else to do I would make sure for myself that I understood whether that is a core value or a side issue. For many folks of many faiths the right to life is a core issue and one they won't compromise on. Just like slavery was and still is in many parts of the world. It should always be opposed and discouraged by legal means.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Darlington, South Carolina
Posts: 1139

quote:

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Originally posted by willseeyalater
Is there anything that you believe personally that you would say is always right or wrong for everyone else? It sounds to me like tolerance for others is more important to you than the moral convictions that you hold as personal. Makes me wonder how deeply you hold to your beliefs. Our society is fullof situations where we need to make judgements and respond to situations. You drive down the road you are always making judgements about and responding to drivers around you. Someone gets loud acting drunk in your neighborhood at night and starts recklessly shooting a gun off for whatever reason I bet you don't say that maybe it's God's will so you won't judge and call the police. Of course not, you want to protect you and others because that is morally right. To me I see lots of people really hold to the secular religion of tolerance over whatever their secondary affiliation is or is not. Sure we all have a right to our beliefs but when we jump to an easy position that it is something I wouldn't do but it's OK for someone else to do I would make sure for myself that I understood whether that is a core value or a side issue. For many folks of many faiths the right to life is a core issue and one they won't compromise on. Just like slavery was and still is in many parts of the world. It should always be opposed and discouraged by legal means.

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Erin Britt

Aight guys, this ain't a bench show and I ain't a hound. Keep ya eyes where they need to be.

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Mayer, MN
Posts: 920

and miserable, I'm sure I won't be. I'll drop it on this one. Enjoy your hounds.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Darlington, South Carolina
Posts: 1139

You too and have a great weekend! We'll agree to somewhat disagree.

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Erin Britt

Aight guys, this ain't a bench show and I ain't a hound. Keep ya eyes where they need to be.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

WOW , what a hornets nest this one is. No one will change anyones mind on this one, I dont think. I dont claim to have all the answers either. As for making judgements , again the bible teaches removing the plank from your eye before judgeing your brother , it doesnt say we should not judge , it says we will be judged by the same rule we judge by. Of course we have to have laws to judge and protect , thats common sense not religion . If you have had an abortion , it is still not an unforgivable sin and does not affect salvation. That is an entirely differant subject apart from this debate.

Secondly I posted the scripture to show that I believe its clear that a fetus is a human life , not a tissue mass. Go back and read my post closely with an open mind.

Finally , I dont think most people that are pro choice are evil. Although I disagree with them , I know there are alot of problems that I dont have the answers to. I just cant support taking of innocent life .( innocent does not apply to the death penalty ) .

Sorry for cluttering up a coon hound mesage board. Im going coon hunting tonight. Alot less controversy out there in the woods. lol... Happy hunting and God Bless.....

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Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

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Registered: May 2007
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 311

I agree with longshot that no one's mind will be changed here.

I'm kinda kicking myself for taking the bait on this one. However since I did I just as well lay all my cards on the table.

As a society we have to have a certain set of laws, for safety sake, that everyone needs to abide by regardless of belief or religion. And yes we must make a judgement about these laws and how to enforce them. When I was speaking of judging someone in my former post I was talking about judging someone morally, not literally.

I see some have quoted the bible in an attempt to strengthen the stance they have taken on the abortion issue. I also see one of these same people then make mention of how wrong slavery is. While I agree whole heartedly about the slavery thing (another choice) I would like you to quote me some scripture that supports that belief. You can check out the book of exodus if you would like to see many quotations in favor of slavery.

I could write on this subject all night and not even scratch the surface. We all have our own beliefs mainly based on how we were raised. I'm sure I've offended some which was never my intention. I was hoping only to provide another point of view.

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Kyle Hough

Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
ISCHA on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IowaStateCoonHunters

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 214

I don't think it should be up to the government to make this decision. I am pro choice, but the choice is made when the woman lays down for the action, not months later. That being said, the government is in our business too much now and this should be left up to parents to teach their children what is right and wrong.

Dane

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Mayer, MN
Posts: 920

Are you sure on that? That is the story of the slaves being freed and God making Pharoah agree that they should go. Not much in there that makes slavery seem like it is God's plan with His blessing. The law in Leviticus has some rules for how to treat slaves and how every seven years they should be freed and debts forgiven. Sounds like freedom is a good thing there. Over in Paul's epistles he gives instructions to those in the churches who had or were slaves. Reading those verses tells me he was saying they should do something very different from the rest of their society. In Philemon Paul tells him to welcome back Onesimus his runaway slave as a brother in Christ. Slavery was a given fact but no where in scripture do I see it being recommended as a good thing. You do see a lot pointing to it and teaching about how to make the dignity of the slave or worker higher than the cultures around them.

No one has offended me in any way. You made me think harder than most days, but that's fine. If I come across as to lofty or whatever I apologize. My style of writing is way different than if we sat down and talked. Sometimes it reads harsh. I try to be plain spoken and to the point. Having worked 12 years in juvenile corrections and seven on staff at a college has made me used to saying what I think in a certain way to make a point.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Two Rivers WI
Posts: 996

Lets say abortion is made illegal except for rape, incest and medical necessity for the mother.

You are then FORCING woman to carry children they don't want. Yes they should of used birth control but birth control is NOT 100% effective....i have two kids and i used birth control. You honestly think that all those woman are going to get proper care?

What about the woman who live in poverty? They can barely take care of themselves then come to find out their pregnant? How can you sit there and say you HAVE to have this baby...why????

What is going to happen to all the children that are given up for adoption? Ya know how hard it is for families to adopt in the US? Why do you think they go to Russia or China etc? Its cheaper and takes less time. How many of those babies are going to end up in dumpsters? Or buried in the backyard in a garbage bag in the middle of the night by some 16 yr old who hid her pregnancy.

When our government starts telling me what I can and can't do with my own body...that's when I start looking to move to another country.

For all you people that condemn women who have had the strength and courage to have an abortion....you seriously need to walk a mile in their shoes and look at things from THEIR perspective for a change.

It is a CHOICE!!!

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 231

It doesnt take strength and courage to have an abortion it takes strength and courage to have a child and raise it.It is no wonder we have a bunch of young people who are not responsible for their actions.Maybe this has something to do with the divorce rate.How many times do you see parents exhausting their finances to get a kid out of trouble thinking theyll learn.They will learn when they are made to be responsible for their actions.

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It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Beaver Springs, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3316

quote:

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Originally posted by reddogg68
It doesnt take strength and courage to have an abortion it takes strength and courage to have a child and raise it.It is no wonder we have a bunch of young people who are not responsible for their actions.Maybe this has something to do with the divorce rate.How many times do you see parents exhausting their finances to get a kid out of trouble thinking theyll learn.They will learn when they are made to be responsible for their actions.

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American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

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Registered: May 2007
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 311

quote:

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Originally posted by willseeyalater
Are you sure on that? That is the story of the slaves being freed and God making Pharoah agree that they should go. Not much in there that makes slavery seem like it is God's plan with His blessing. The law in Leviticus has some rules for how to treat slaves and how every seven years they should be freed and debts forgiven. Sounds like freedom is a good thing there. Over in Paul's epistles he gives instructions to those in the churches who had or were slaves. Reading those verses tells me he was saying they should do something very different from the rest of their society. In Philemon Paul tells him to welcome back Onesimus his runaway slave as a brother in Christ. Slavery was a given fact but no where in scripture do I see it being recommended as a good thing. You do see a lot pointing to it and teaching about how to make the dignity of the slave or worker higher than the cultures around them.


No one has offended me in any way. You made me think harder than most days, but that's fine. If I come across as to lofty or whatever I apologize. My style of writing is way different than if we sat down and talked. Sometimes it reads harsh. I try to be plain spoken and to the point. Having worked 12 years in juvenile corrections and seven on staff at a college has made me used to saying what I think in a certain way to make a point.

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Kyle Hough

Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
ISCHA on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IowaStateCoonHunters

Last edited by Cornbelt on 12-08-2007 at 06:32 AM

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