Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylva, North Carolina (the far Western Tip of the State)
Posts: 10272

I CAN SEE THE GOOD AND THE BAD TO BOTH SIDES OF THIS.

ON ONE SIDE YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT THE PLEASURE AND BEAR HUNTERS THAT BREED FOR THEMSELVES AND DONT WORRY ABOUT ANYONE ELSE AND THOSE THAT DONT COMPETITION HUNT THAT USE PEDIGREES AS A BREEDING TOOL.

YOU CANT PENALIZE THEM AND NOT ALLOW THEM TO REGISTER THEIR PUPS JUST BECAUSE THEY DONT COMPETE IN NITE HUNTS OR THE HUNT TESTS.

I GET WHAT YA'LL ARE GETTING AT. TRYING TO MAKE THE NTCH AND GRNTCH DOG BETTER. TO ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE DOUBT TO WHETHER THIS OR THAT TITLED DOG CAN ACUTALLY TREE A COON BY ITSELF.

HERE'S MY SOLUTION TO THE WHOLE PROBLEM:

IN THE RESPECT OF HURTING CLUB TURN OUTS, I DONT THINK UKC SHOULD RESTRICT NITE HUNT ENTRIES TO ONLY THOSE THAT HAVE PASSED A HUNT TEST.

BUT RATHER TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH. THIS WAY THE HUNT TESTER CAN HUNT AND GET THEIR TITLES, AND SO CAN THE NITE HUNTER.

I THINK UKC SHOULD MAKE IT TO WHERE THE DOG CAN ENTER AS MANY HUNTS AS IT WANTS, BUT HAS TO PASS AT LEAST 2 HUNT TESTS BEFORE IT CAN ACTUALLY EARN A NTCH TITLE.

SAY IN ADDITION TO A DOG COMPLETING THE 1ST PLACE WIN AND 100 POINTS, MAKE IT A REQUIREMENT THAT IN ORDER FOR THEM TO GET THEIR NTCH DEGREE, THEY HAVE TO PASS 2 HUNT TESTS, OR THE DOG WILL STAY A REGISTERED DOG.

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Last edited by Christy on 09-08-2007 at 06:31 PM

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Gauley Bridge,Wv
Posts: 2938

quote:

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Originally posted by Christy
I CAN SEE THE GOOD AND THE BAD TO BOTH SIDES OF THIS.

ON ONE SIDE YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT THE PLEASURE AND BEAR HUNTERS THAT BREED FOR THEMSELVES AND DONT WORRY ABOUT ANYONE ELSE AND THOSE THAT DONT COMPETITION HUNT THAT USE PEDIGREES AS A BREEDING TOOL.

YOU CANT PENALIZE THEM AND NOT ALLOW THEM TO REGISTER THEIR PUPS JUST BECAUSE THEY DONT COMPETE IN NITE HUNTS OR THE HUNT TEST.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

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Originally posted by roughcreek
i hear you people complaining about dud studs !! why dont you just go & hunt with a dog you want to breed to...........

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: northeastern kentucky
Posts: 415

quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
I think if done right it COULD improve all the breeds and COULD improve the chances of each pup making something that had the natural ability to tree a coon though.

I don't know that it would kill UKC.

I bet there are plenty of show people that won't like it, but they can't use the excuse that they "just don't like competition hunting". If it's cheap enough they can't use expense. They can't say "I don't want him to get cut up by the mean dogs he needs to look good to show".

The showers excuses would be gone and then we would just see if little miss priss with the manicure really could tree a coon or if it was all show and no go.

Same for the NtCh dogs that won't get out of your light by themselves. You wouldn't have people quitting the hunt when they got to hunt by themselves, or trying to convince the judge to let the last dog that withdrew stay in the cast or be turned loose but not scored.

People like me with limited time couldn't use that either cause it can be done any time you get a day off.

Ain't treein a coon what a dog with Coonhound in it's name is supposed to be able to do?

It looks like there are plenty show people on here voteing already.

Of course I would NEVER stir the pot

LOL

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: virginia
Posts: 340

If you have a question about a dog hunt with it. Too much politics involved (In my opinion) could play a factor. Sure some people have made a great argument for this test! If you want to participate in it great. But don't penalize someone else who doesn't want to take part in it. If anyone has a question about wether a coonddog is a coondog simply go hunt with it!! If I was going to push a dog and try to get as much $$ per breeding or pups it could push the value up some. But it will still go back to how the dog performed in the hunts and the breeding the dog is off of.JMO.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylva, North Carolina (the far Western Tip of the State)
Posts: 10272

quote:

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Originally posted by mudman
i agree i dont comp hunt so if this rule passes what does it mean please explain

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

this is a good idea, especially to improve the breed! the only thing that i would change is that dogs should have to pass this test before entering a hunt only... many people enter young dogs in field trials, bench shows, etc to get them familiar with the scene at clubs... however many of these dogs have not hunted by themselves yet... on the other hand... i think this is a must requirement for the hunts. #1 it eliminates the "me too" dogs and #2 it keeps the junk runners out of the hunts as well. heck isn't a nite hunt for treeing coon? not deer, fox, etc... too many times i have been involved in a cast where there's a dog that is interested in running off game and there's an hour of the hunt time used in chasing mr. whitetail around...

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: start, La.
Posts: 125

I agree with Christy, let anybody come to the hunts and hunt but before your dog is awarded the NtCh degree it must be Htx under TWO DIFFERENT MOH and TWO DIFFERENT WITNESSES each time to complete the two hunt test( 3 different witnesses for each test). This will help restore a great deal of credibility to the title of NtCh and GrNtCh. When certifying for GrNtCh a different set of MOH and witnesses must be used. This will make the crooked buddy system much harder to title a dog. This will mean a lot to the hunter that would like new blood in his hounds but can not hunt with that hound or pups related to geography or economics. This can only improve all coonhound breeds. My female is 8 y/o and never been in a UKC hunt but can flat tree a coon and she also reproduces,I am training one out of her only litter now with litter mates doing great with the other owners. I would put her in a few hunt test to prove her. i only wish that i had the time to comp. hunt when she was young, but her daughter will be there next year now that my job allows it.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Shelbyville, IN
Posts: 294

I think this should only be required if you want to register pups. This would stop the breeding of dogs that have absolutely no hunting ability. I don't think this needs to be required to enter a nite hunt. If people want to pay the entry fee to hunt a dog that can't tree a coon then let them. I just don't think should be allowed to breed these dogs.

This is an opportunity to improve all breeds of coonhounds.

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If HSUS backed legislation requireing the passing of a hunt test before you could breed, would you be singing the same song?

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Vernon, Alabama
Posts: 2382

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
If HSUS backed legislation requireing the passing of a hunt test before you could breed, would you be singing the same song?

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Shelbyville, IN
Posts: 294

As for hsus I am pretty sure they are not going to sponsor a program that promotes hunting.

And no a hunt test will not tell you if a dog can reproduce but will promote the breeding of dogs that carry at least a few of the traits needed to perform the task they were meant to do.

Too many people breed dogs in our sport (especially females) hoping the pups will turn out when the parents don't know what a coon is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: Ms
Posts: 53

I WONDER HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER STOPPED TO THINK HOW MANY GREAT DOGS WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN IF BROOD BITCHES WERE NOT ALLOWED YEARS AGO. HOUSE'S LIPPER FOR ONE. ALONG WITH MANY JET AND HAMMER BLUETICKS, AND IM SURE MANY B&T'S, REDBONES.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Shelbyville, IN
Posts: 294

quote:

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Originally posted by L. Harper
I WONDER HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER STOPPED TO THINK HOW MANY GREAT DOGS WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN IF BROOD BITCHES WERE NOT ALLOWED YEARS AGO. HOUSE'S LIPPER FOR ONE. ALONG WITH MANY JET AND HAMMER BLUETICKS, AND IM SURE MANY B&T'S, REDBONES.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

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Originally posted by L. Harper
I WONDER HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER STOPPED TO THINK HOW MANY GREAT DOGS WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN IF BROOD BITCHES WERE NOT ALLOWED YEARS AGO. HOUSE'S LIPPER FOR ONE. ALONG WITH MANY JET AND HAMMER BLUETICKS, AND IM SURE MANY B&T'S, REDBONES.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2162

Didn't John Wicke cull the mother of Stylish Queen?

How different would the Walker breed be if Queen's mother had never been bred, and Queen never were born?

What seems to us to be common sense (best to best) doesn't always yield the expected results when we start applying it to a subject (genetics) where we have very little scientific knowledge (measurable and determinable).

We can breed dogs based on their traits, characteristics, abilities, titles, pedigree, etc. We can control that! We have no control over how the chromosomes, and the millions of genes contained in these chromosomes interact/combine. It's still a matter of breed for the best (all we can do, and based on all the knowlege available to us), and hope for the best!! Anybody professing to know more than this is fooling himself, and/or trying to fool you (exempting repeat crosses).

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Sugar Land, Texas
Posts: 616

Can anyone tell me about the new hunts and were a person can find out about the rules. When will these hunts start ?

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