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Dustin Myers
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Bonners Ferry, ID
Posts: 776

This is one of the best threads I've seen on the message boards in a long time. Hunters with a wide variety of perspectives about breeding, respectfully agreeing and disagreeing with one another, and doing it in a positive manner. While we will never all totally agree on the best ways to do anything, I've heard more intellegent and thought out points of view in this thread, than I have in a while. I think it is very good for us all if we can continue these types of discussions.

I've read alot of similar type threads in other departments on this site, that haven't stayed nearly as positive or constructive. I hope we can keep the Big Game Board a place where folks can share and debate ideas, without being harassed by others who have nothing intellegent to say, but like to start controversy.

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Idaho Lightfoot English Hounds
Our goal isn’t to produce the highest number of hounds we can. It is to produce the highest percentage,
of the highest quality of hounds we can.
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Old Post 10-04-2007 06:00 PM
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Dustin Myers
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Bonners Ferry, ID
Posts: 776

OK, here’s some of my ideas and opinions. I believe that first and foremost, before anyone can attempt to make a cross that will improve the quality of the hounds they own. They must first have a good understanding of what a good hound really is. This can only be done by putting the time in in the woods. You must first have hunted with enough different hounds, in enough different scenarios, to understand the differences between an exceptional hound, a good hound, a mediocre hound, and a worthless one. There are no short cuts to this part of the process.

Once you have put the time in to be able to accurately evaluate what qualities and faults a hound possesses, you can begin the process of selecting which hounds are of the quality that deserve to be bred. Now that you have a hound you have determined deserves to be bred, you must again use your knowledge of hounds to evaluate the good and bad characteristics of any potential mates. At this point you are not just looking for another hound that is of breeding quality, but also for a hound who’s characteristics compliment the hound they will be bred to, and has qualities that can improve the overall ability of the pups born from this cross. In other words they should both have as many good traits in common as possible, but should also offset any weaknesses in each other. The more good characteristics they have in common the better, but no pair of hounds that could be bred are exactly what the person who is breeding them desires. Therefore you must be able to honestly evaluate each hound and recognize any weakness they may have. You should try to make sure that any weakness one mate has, the other mate is strong in that characteristic.

While going through this process, I believe that you will greatly increase your odds of getting a litter of pups that have the ability to improve your hunting and breeding program, if you select two mates that carry some of the same breeding in their pedigrees (line breeding). In my experience the percentage of top quality hounds produced in a litter can be greatly increased, when you breed not only two top notch hounds, but two hounds who inherited their good qualities from some of the same hounds in their pedigrees. This increases the odds that the pups from the cross will also exibit those same good qualities, because it will be in their pedigree more than one time. It also increases the odds that the pups from this litter will carry similar characteristics to each other, as opposed to a litter that doesn’t carry any common breeding. It’s this consistency that will allow the breeder/hunter to more accurately evaluate the entire litter to determine the common strengths and weaknesses of the litter as a whole. This makes the next step of trying to improve your hounds again a little easier. Because you now know what characteristics your hounds as a group are strong in, and which of their characteristics you should try to improve in any future crosses.

To achieve this goal of continually trying to improve your hounds, you should now search to find a hound with as many good characteristics as possible, but also one that is extra stong in the characteristic you are trying to improve. Hopefully you can find such a hound within the family or bloodline of hounds you are currently breeding. But if not, this may be the point in time where you should look outside the bloodline for a good outcross that can add the desired traits you are looking for. An outcross will probably reduce the consistency of the all pups being similar. But if it works as planned, (which it sometimes doesn’t) hopefully you will get a hound that is improved in the characteristic you wanted, and still carries enough good characteristics from your own hounds, that it will be suitable to use in your breeding program. This is just a theory and it doesn’t always work as planned. If an outcross or any other breeding doesn’t achieve the desired goal, then you will have to take a step back and try something different. If you do get a hound from the outcross that you feel will help improve your hounds as a group. Then that hound should be bred back to a hound from your original bloodline, to try to incorporate the new characteristic into the bloodline.

These are just some of my personal opinions I have developed from the experiences I’ve had and lessons I’ve learned from others. They are theories that I follow and believe in, but are just my theories. I know that any theory doesn’t work all the time, and I’ve seen mine proven wrong occasionally too. I’m in no way trying to tell anyone how they should go about breeding their hounds. I just thought I would share some of my ideas in an effort to add something to this excellent thread. I hope we can keep it going. I’ve really enjoyed this one.

OK, I think I need a nap now. I must have worked my brain to hard. LOL

__________________
Idaho Lightfoot English Hounds
Our goal isn’t to produce the highest number of hounds we can. It is to produce the highest percentage,
of the highest quality of hounds we can.
208-267-1186
Home of:
Idaho Tapp Out Sniper
Idaho Lightfoot Kinder
Former Home of:
Idaho Lightfoot Black Jack
Idaho Lightfoot Blitz
Idaho Lightfoot Snapshot
Idaho Lightfoot Whiplash
Idaho Lightfoot Gambler

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Old Post 10-04-2007 09:28 PM
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Rockcreek
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2006
Location: Utah
Posts: 176

quote:
Originally posted by Dustin Myers
[B]OK, here’s some of my ideas and opinions. I believe that first and foremost, before anyone can attempt to make a cross that will improve the quality of the hounds they own. They must first have a good understanding of what a good hound really is. This can only be done by putting the time in in the woods. You must first have hunted with enough different hounds, in enough different scenarios, to understand the differences between an exceptional hound, a good hound, a mediocre hound, and a worthless one. There are no short cuts to this part of the process.


Dude you nailed it...... how are you supposed to find anything if you don't know what it looks like. Great post bud.... great post, all of it! Take care. Mason

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702-686-5035

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Old Post 10-05-2007 07:48 AM
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hellcat
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1522

Good Post's

You Do have to be a good houndsmen to be a good breeder.
Jess

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Jess
Light Foot English

"They are often imitated but never duplicated"

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Old Post 10-05-2007 03:51 PM
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redtickbliss
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: greencastle pa
Posts: 44

found this old post and thought it was great. just thought i'd bump it to the top to let other new members get to read it and see if everyone still agrees on what they said and if they learned anything new over the last two years. i really liked the idea of keeping breedings close to pull out the bad faults to eliminate them.

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matt souders
The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese

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Old Post 11-22-2009 02:30 AM
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branch505
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 269

the way I see it is the quality in both the male and female have to be there. If you were looking for a male or female that was finished or at least very close would you buy them, if not wait till later and see if they preform if not back away and start again or buy a dog that performs to your expectations and then breed. I know often enough we spend a lot of time and energy into a pup or young dog, but the reality the only way to improve the breed from my opinion is to buy the best genetics available and breed only if they pan out.

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Old Post 11-22-2009 03:38 PM
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mprice
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Diamondhead, Ms
Posts: 371

I don't mean to sound stupid or cavalier-

quote:
Originally posted by hellcat
This takes years, But if you are not planing on spending years with the line, Why breed them ?
Jess



First of all, Jess, you said a mouthful. I want to begin by thanking all of you who breed hounds.

I think there are a lot of folks who breed fine dogs and I don't need to be one of them (I've learned that about myself). I am what I consider a pleasure hunter who can train a dog, show a dog, just for the "sport" of it and I like that that just fine. I know I don't have "years" of time to dedicate to a line of dogs - and I know years is not an exaggeration.

For me, conformation is only slightly more important than function. A sound hound will have the physical "stuff" to function - not the other way around. But, I have no business in my situation to try and breed that dog. I believe it's true that there are ALWAYS good dogs out there and again, it's due to careful, ethical breeders like yourselves. Thank you all, again.

Marc

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Old Post 11-22-2009 05:03 PM
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hellcat
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1522

quote:
Originally posted by redtickbliss
found this old post and thought it was great. just thought i'd bump it to the top to let other new members get to read it and see if everyone still agrees on what they said and if they learned anything new over the last two years. i really liked the idea of keeping breedings close to pull out the bad faults to eliminate them.


Matt
I had forgotten about this post. I also enjoyed the discourse and exchange of ideas a great deal. Thanks for bumping it up.

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Jess
Light Foot English

"They are often imitated but never duplicated"

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Old Post 11-23-2009 08:35 PM
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redtickbliss
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: greencastle pa
Posts: 44

well hopfully it catches on again and remains civil.



Dustin had a very good point about knowing your hounds because i can honestly say i've never seen a exceptional hound and only been in the woods one that i would say was a good hound. I may be to picky but to me if you say somthing is good or above average that means its better than the majority and 80 percent of dogs can't be better than the majority. so in reality 51 percent of the dogs can't be good or above average. The best i ever owned was average and below. and i'm constintly looking for somthing better. But every one tells me i'm to picky and hard headed. But i can't settle on mediocracy. I've only hunted for about three years and my veiws may change some day or gain a new understanding of dogs. Don't know if it makes sense to any one else but just my veiw

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matt souders
The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese

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Old Post 11-24-2009 03:20 PM
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