Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

I think a combination of factors are at work.

1. There are plenty of hunts to pick and choose from. This is good for the hunter, but bad for the club that is having trouble staying afloat. UKC, PKC, and club hunts are all vying for my time and money. I wouldn't attempt to go to them all. The old timers in my club tell me about when they had 60 dogs at an event. But there might only be one event per month in the whole region and it drew everybody that owned a hound or thought about owning one.

2. Places to hunt. I've been on the phone lately trying to help line up guides for an upcoming big hunt our club might have. EVERYBODY mentions the lack of access to hunting areas. Not that we are that short, but there are sure few areas that are ok for taking a nite hunt cast to. If someone thinks they might be asked or expected to guide, they probably won't even go to a hunt.

3. Everybody wants to compete at a level they can win at. Gone are the days when a hide hunter might break out ol' Buck that hasn't been off the chain since last winter and head down to the local club, guide and judge his cast, more or less go by the rules, and win. Most of the dogs in hunts are being hunted during the week, they have the ability to tree several coons in a couple hours and they come to win.

...just my opinions...

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Location:
Posts: N/A

Are you saying your basic pleasure dog can't tree coons fast enough so they just stay home? It's prolly more like your basic pleasure hunter beats his own dog, gets mad, stays home. Last Friday night a fella claimed the dogs were running his 6 year old female off the tree because she NEVER leaves a tree. The truth was prolly closer to something like she hadn't treed with anything but her regular buddys in the last three years and she freaked out when two dogs she'd never seen before joined her on a tree. Anyway, he left saying he would never hunt another one cause of the rough dogs.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

Jim, are you tryin' to get me killed or something?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

You want to know what's interesting? In the 15 years I've been at UKC, the average entry, across the board, has only dropped about two dogs per event. Now that's 4,500 UKC events alone keep in mind, the big ones and the small ones. Are the big hunts getting bigger and the small hunts getting smaller? Is it a regional thing? Do certain clubs go through highs and lows and it all averages out in the end? That's what I tend to think. But when you look at the big picture, the average is only down a couple dogs over a 15 year period. Sure I would rather see it up a couple dogs but it's no secret, the more at bats you have the harder it is to hold an average. There are a lot of hunts out there today.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 175

In our local club, our UKC hunt entries are off 20 to 50% from last year for each hunt. Our UKC hunts draw 20 to 40 depending on the hunt.
Our PKC hunt entries are holding about the same. Our PKC hunts draw 10 to 30 depending on the hunt.
I wish I knew why our entries have declined but I suspect it is a combination of the economy and an over supply of hunts.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Southeasten North Carolina
Posts: 220

I think the english guy is right kids are losing interest. Especially when they get on a cast with a couple of win at all cost, cursing me too , get everybody sracthed handlers. Take that kid pleasure hunting with a dog until the dog and the kid know one another like brothers then take them to a hunt and win the whole dang thing. Kids are the keys to us being able to dog hunt whether it is coons, deer, bear, or even birds.....
Dave

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 30

The economy definitly!! feed,entries,let alone the gas prices are going up and down so frequently. Besides I have a few friends that would be happy with a job!! Saving money getting ready to pay the schools hundreds of dollars. The younger hunters are the ones suffering the ones with kids. If you have a good dog do you
try and earn points or are you going to wait till you know you have an chance!! Enough said!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: South Salem, Ohio
Posts: 178

If I am understanding what todd wrote, if UKC is down on an average of 2 dogs per event. At 4500 events UKC is down 9000 entries. Now I cant wait to see the final Autumn Oaks total because I entered my cousin with 15 days left before the deadline and he recieved the # 441. I would be led to believe that the total dogs is going to be way down, but they could get a last minute flood of entries. Time will tell.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 340

As someone who has gone to a few hunts both large and small, I ask myself why would I want to go? I don't need a degree to know if my dog is any good, I don't care if I sell puppies, I don't like to argue and whine, and I don't have lots of extra money. I coon hunt because I like to get away from all the busy, fast paced, win-at-all-cost, nothing-is-my-fault world and so.....I just stay at home and hunt with my friends. I can go every night and not spend as much as 1 entry fee, I can choose who I hunt with, and we can all enjoy what our dogs do (or don't do). Besides, I can here all the whining, bragging, and opinions right here on the board! AND ITS FREE!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Comer, Georgia
Posts: 4724

you hit the nail on the head...................I competition hunted EVERY weekend up until about the mid ninties.........then it ceased bein' fun......and yes, I still had dogs that were winning.............last dog I competition hunted won 34 of the 37 casts I had him in..........with plus points.............It just quit bein
fun when somebody was belly achin' or tryin' to cheat on most casts......................see my thread from last week --"Todd/Tank".....serious hunt question..............things haven't changed...................I can hunt with some close friends and their good hounds any night I care for the company...........used to hunt alot with Eric Lowe and his dual grand Rip dog about once a week........still enjoy that.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: South Salem, Ohio
Posts: 178

Guys, I have not ran into all the cheating and whining that everyone has talked about on here. I have competetion hunted for 21 years and I still have just as much fun as I used to. I believe it must just happen in certain parts of the country. LOL Here is my theory, you must know the rules to stop any potential cheating. If you know them like the back of your hand it is hard for them to cheat you. It is all in black and white, The biggest thing I have come to understand is, dont go to the woods expected to be cheated, go to have fun. Let everyone know you are out there to have fun and you cant have fun if you are arguing and bickering. This is a sport and everyone one in it has one thing in common, we all like hounds and we all like to coonhunt, so let be sportsman and lets have fun doing what we love to do.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: South Salem, Ohio
Posts: 178

Pretty close poll, thanks for the input.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Comer, Georgia
Posts: 4724

I do not believe there is cheating or whining on every cast...............but I go to the hunts to enjoy myself.....period............and once every 3 or 4 casts is too much for me..............it didn't used to be that way.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Underwood in.
Posts: 2312

I don't Agree it didn't use to be that way.there was more problems year's ago hunt's didn't get better untill Fred Miller came to UKC.very few people have hunted in more hunt's than I have. If you get cheated you let it happen ( In early 60's saw men fight in wood's at club house)dont't grab your little dog up run to club house say I got cheated.Just because rule's don't go your way.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: illlinois
Posts: 1902

on events, is close to impossible. too many going on.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 340

I hope you guys continue to enjoy the hunts and don't have all the problems the rest of us encounter all too often. Obviously, you guys have never hunted with a Grand Nite dog that didn't open on the ground or guys who don't help look for coons, or babbling strike dogs, or slick tree dogs that get lots of circle points! Hey, that ain't cheatin', that is just knowing the rules and being a good handler! OK, have it your way and I'll just stay home, right along with a whole lot of other folks. No arguments....I can get enough of that reading "the truth about Rock"!!!!! LOL! Yep, reading that mess sure makes me want to be a part of the hunts and shows! Good luck!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 936

TWENTY YEARS AGO YOU HAD TO HUNT TO FIND A PLACE TO PARK YOUR TRUCK AT A NIGHT HUNT . THEY WOULD HUNT 60 DOGS AT A LITTLE CLUB HUNT. THE ENTRY FEE WAS $10.00 AND THEY HAD GRADE AS WELL AS REGISTERED HOUNDS . AND IF YOU DIDN'T WIN YOUR CAST, YOU COULD STILL PLACE PROVIDED YOU HAD A HIGH ENOUGH SCORE WITH PLUS POINTS AS LONG AS THERE WASN'T 10 CAST WINNERS.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Ia
Posts: 2195

Maybe we should take a look at the average age of competition hunters. I've been to Bluetick days, English days, and Redbone days this year and the best thing I saw at these three big hunts was the kids hunt and show at English days. I look back at all the local hunts I have been to this year and I could probably count the number of hunters under the age of 25 on one hand. My opinion it's a sport that is going to be in jeopardy unless we get more younger hunters. I think the English Assoc has the right idea we just need more of these hunts. I think back to when I was in High School I could think of a dozen or more kids from my area that used to hit the hunts every weekend, of those people their are only 3 of us left hunting at all.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 78

to many clubs meaning that now you still have all the akc,ukc,acha and nkc hunts they always had and as near as I can tell there's geographical favorites concerning these. PKC has come on the seen and in gaining in popularity whether we like it or not. I think this is a major pull from the the original clubs. The PKC is a big lure for newer hunters with all the money being advertised on the wins. Look at the numbers say for instance the breeders showcase they ran a week or so ago in three nites they run around 1500 dogs in the hunt this is a major hunt by any standards. I think PKC is gaining in entries while the others are falling off even if its by a small margin.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Comer, Georgia
Posts: 4724

I surely don't intend to get into an immature peein' contest with you.........glad you never have any trouble at the hunts.......like I said......I did not hunt in 'em to win or lose.....just to have a good time.........ask ANYBODY that has hunted with my hounds..........if they don't do the job right, they leave my kennels.............seems to me there are folks that think just 'cause some people don't competition hunt, they don't have good hounds...............here's a couple references on mine......Eric Lowe (Daul Grand Lowe's Walker Rip, Swift Creek Max), Jason Carey (dual Grand Hardwood Harley), Mitch Loggins (the Albert Dogs from Tennessee)......................I was in my first UKC hunt in 1970..........just my opinion, but things HAVE got worse......have a good day.........JOHN SEGINAK 706-783-3248..PS-If your ever comin' to Georgia, like for the winter classic, come a day early and go huntin' with me........I garunteeeee you'll have a great time!!...............................what Joe Brooks said above................in the late 70's and early 80's, our AVERAGE hunt at the Comer, Georgia club had 40-60 dogs..............see what the average is now........just look in the back of the bloodlines.................too many clubs???......don't think so, not around here, anyway............maybe 1 or 2 more, but the weekends usually do not coincide, and the die-hard competition folks are goin' every week.

Last edited by coon dawg on 08-05-2003 at 11:21 AM

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Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

The added money hunts do draw a big crowds and they do get a lot of our younger hunters when they see all the money being won, but its a small handfull of people that are winning the big money. And yes the numbers of hunters are large at these events, but the average PKC local event draws about 4-16 dogs not a great amount our average UKC event hunts 8-30 dogs. Did you look at the cast results, the first night 1/3 of the dogs won money with out plus points and both nights after that 1/2 the dogs won money whith out plus points. That just doesnt spell coon dog to me and ya I know the ones that won their cast looked better than the others in its cast. All that means to me is they all 4 of them look like crap.I do believe that we have to many clubs and that doesnt mean whith in 100 miles of each other years ago you had more people at the local events because if you had one within 300 miles you better go they may not have another one that close.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: illlinois
Posts: 1902

i agree on what you have said. i can remember the early 1970's and early 80's and entries in the ukc shows were alot larger. 40-50 were not unusual!! all breeds represented!! today? you're lucky you see that many for a state event?! lol!! recently, there was a show, another registry, said they had 58 entries!! maybe? but total hounds there were 20-25..check results. they were duplicate entries. rofl!! so.. no single registry is commanding it all. "our" generation is getting older and new kids are on the block...lol!! will they be able to carry on? makes you wonder with all the expense of competing today. and i'm sure not ashamed to say..i simply can't afford to run from upper ill. to all-over to keep up with the "jones"..lol!! behave yourself...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Comer, Georgia
Posts: 4724

you KNOW I always behave myself, Laura!!....sorry to hear about the heart problem.........hope ya are up and at 'em soon!!!!....................PS-my ex and crazy Patricia say hi!!..............I am wonderin' where the "only 2 dogs less, on the average" stat came from???........maybe they should look at that 1979-83 data I little closer.........ya agree??.................we had ALOT of dogs in the hunts, and 20 to 40 in the average club shows......................last three weeks, the shows I went to averaged 6 dogs...........one had 3...........2 nite champions in the hunt (not casts......dogs).........and 3 registered casts.

Last edited by coon dawg on 08-05-2003 at 05:07 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: illlinois
Posts: 1902

onery as ever??!! lol! you are coming for autumn oaks..right? like to say hi in person. will be in showcase there. need a cool place to sit and greet old friends and new. lol! lucy and pat...there is a twosome...lol! they still hunting and showing? how is your daughter, as well as pat's, doing? they must be young ladies now. my ticker is fine...only the "good" go young...lol!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Comer, Georgia
Posts: 4724

Pats daughter got married last Thursday.........neither her, my ex, or Pat hunt or show any more..............my daughter Lucy LOVES to coon hunt, as does my present wife................both spectated on enough casts that they don't care to go to the hunts..........take care, my friend...hope to see ya at the Oaks......depends on whether we get enough dry weather to lower the rivers enough to shock and sample 'em by then.........come go huntin'........stay with us if ya come to the Classic.

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